Would the klitchko's last in the 70s?

[TBear]

15 rounds would be difficult for either of them.

[STEELHEAD]

Ali was in his prime in '67 because he looked his best, was younger, and had not been off in a 3 year hiatus...
I dont understand. So I should just ignore what Foreman accomplished? the fact that he was still beating top opponents way after his prime, out of shape in his midlate 40s shows that in his prime he would have at LEAST done well in his prime in that era. is that really so hard to understand?
Just because it was Ali's best win doesnt mean it was his prime.

I very much dislike Ali as a person, but that doesnt reflect on him as a fighter. Getting knocked down by Cooper early in his career by a very hard flush punch doesnt magically make him ****. Getting hit by a 190lb person flush with good technique hurts more than getting hit by a larger guy with worse technique. being bigger doesnt NOT make you the bigger puncher. hell, a 130lb retired woman boxer hit as hard as a 205+lb MMA male fighter when they did an alike test.
saying that Ali is **** because he got knocked down once early in his career is like saying that Wladimir sucks ass because he got TKOed by a bum. both things are ******.
I said he looked frustrated and had a difficult time hitting Byrd, and got hit flush on the jaw by him near his prime. Out of all the guys that Vitali fought, likely Byrd resembles Ali the most. why wouldnt I bring up that fight?
In fact, I cant stand Ali. he was a moron in his prime, and a total jackass. but that doesnt mean I should ignore the fact he was brilliant in the ring.

I already said 'yes, I know Cooney was not Vitali'. but he was a large opponent, and not a total bum either. I only brought him up because he was a decent opponent who was only a little shorter than Vitali, and Foreman had no trouble whatsoever with height. Foreman would have trouble with Vitali and his particular style maybe...but the height differential would not be a big deal to him.

honestly, grow up. I know you like the Klitschkos and everything, but at least try to have a boxing discussion without becoming a child just because someone disagrees with you.
If it makes you happy, go ahead and stay in lala land. but dont be such a baby.

thanks.
thank you.

[yessuh]

First of all the 70's Ali wasnt difficult to hit at all, he took more punches against fat YMCA journeyman Chuck Wepner than Vitali has in his entire come back. Seriously, what a joke. I love the super Ali. First of all, its hilarious all the people calling these guys who used to fight at 190-200 early in their career "natural Cruisers" are you on crack? I guess Ali is a natural cruiser as well, hell, so is pretty much every "great" boxer of all time pre-tyson. Ali did the rope a dope against Foreman because he knew he couldnt avoid Foreman's punches. VITALI THROWS MORE AND FROM MORE ANGLES. He is stronger, and bigger than foreman and with much more stamina. You also down play INTELLIGENCE. Vitali is smarter and more prepared and his unorthodox style and preparation would be a nightmare for a hypejob like Ali who was knocked unconcious by 188 pound Henry Cooper and knocked down and taken 15 rounds by Chuck Wepner. Vitali wouldnt be intimidated, wouldnt fight ******, he'd stand in front of Ali, completely unafraid of his power, he'd keep his range, back away from his punches, he fights taller than any fighter in history, and Ali would be forced to chase Ali and 70's Ali was not a chaser. Vitali loves fighting off the back foot and he would wear Ali out, throw more punches, and do tons more damage. He'd probably win by easy TKO in round 8 or so. Anyone who sees it any other way is just a nostalgic person who talks about a mythical Ali who had the chin of Ali against Foreman, the speed of Ali against Liston, power that he never had etc...Want to know how Vitali would do against Ali...watch Ali vs. Foreman and imagine if Foreman had been 25 lbs larger, 4 inches taller, and had used his range and not tried to get inside Ali, instead of letting ALi push on him illegally push the back of his head down etc..., he threw 1-3 punches at a time, backed away,and repeated. Thats what would have happened

Foreman would be even easier for Vitali. Vitali is a bigger stronger, smarter, Foreman with more Stamina. Seriously, Vitali is a human freaking Rope a Dope. He doesnt require the rope. He'd let Foreman chase him, let him corner him, at times Vitali would even run from Foreman. He'd keept his hands down, push foreman away, refuse to clinch ever and if foreman came in and clinched, Vitali would put 250lbs on Foreman. Foreman would be exhausted and confused and take a ton of leather tryong to get close to Vitali's chin. Again, reach is inconsequential when Vitali's chin is 6 inches higher in the air. and he fights tall and long and off the back foot. Foreman's awkward arm punches would be a picnic against Vitali. When has Vitali been hurt? He keeps his hands down and trusts his chin thats never been broken. That uppercut that Lewis threw against Vitali that Vitali walked through is a stronger punch than anything Foreman threw in his life. Thats just a fact. no punch that Foreman had would scare Vitali, Vitali would walk him around the ring, hit him at will, lean back away from Foreman, keep his distance.


Frazier...stfu, if you think that Frazier would be any problem for Vitali you dont know boxing. See frazier vs foreman...any second from their fights...all you need to know.

Norton's crab wouldnt affect Vitali one bit.

A prime Shavers lost toa fighter with a losing record. People need to shut the hell up about Shavers, he's Shannon Briggs without any chin and less ability.

Theres never been a fighter like Vitali, never.

Im not going to argue Wlad, because I think he beats all of these guys as well, but people will argue he has no chin and I dont really want to explain to someone how if a fighter drastically changes their technique to eliminate a weakness that they improve and hence are better than they were and hence couldnt have been prime previously because they are better

Ali was prime in 67...haha why? Because he beat a legitimate cripple in Cleveland Williams, and was coming off of 2 fixed fights with Sonny Liston...Oh I forgot...he beat Ernie Terrell...WHO LOST MORE IN 1967 THAN VITALI HAS IN HIS CAREER. Wow...what a great win...beating a guy who lost 3 times that year...way to go. Oh he truly was the greatest of all time...the way he dispatched of a guy who was shot in the stomach and one who lost 3 times that year.

Your whole argument is based on A > B, B>C, C>A, thats nonsense. Did you know Tommy Machine Gunn beat a younger Foreman than the one who won the Lineal title, Tommy Machine Gunn beat Foreman easy, Holyfield struggled with him, so Tommy Gunn would have easily beat Holyfield, Holyfield beat Tyson, so that means Tommy Gunn would have beat Tyson, Tyson beat Holmes easy, and Holmes massacred Ali...therefore Tommy Gunn would have been the greatest fighter of the 70's. Your argument is ridiculous. Heavyweights who add weight and stay in decent shape, have proven time and time again that they can win fluke fights because their chins tend to actually improve due to the extra weight and brain damage, and their punch tends to be the last thing to fade.

The Wepner fight was months apart from Foreman. Foreman is by far Ali's best win. You want to talk about an Ali that was knocked unconcious by 188 pound, a guy who would be a LHW today, Henry Coop Cooperson. A guy who refused to rematch Jones because he was a big time coward. A guy who had to cheat in matches, who caused cuts because his gloves were cut during matches and concealed, gloves with rips in them...CAUSE MORE CUTS.

Vitali was hurt early in the fight and continued and it kept getting worse. He dealt with Byrd easily, he was never hurt, didnt have a cut or a mark on him, you do realize how pathetic it is that you defend Ali who was literally knocked unconcious by a 188 pounder, but criticize Vitali for taking some shots in a fight. Wow...You mean Vitali was hit? Guys hit him at times? HE SUCKS. TERRIBLE BOXER. SOMEONE HIT HIM.

Haha and I love how you talk about prime. Its funny, all these clowns talking about Ali's prime...but then bring up Chris Byrd...not only did Vitali take the Byrd fight on a weeks notice after prepping for Ruddock...could you find 2 different fighters? But he was 3.5 years into his pro boxing career at the time, and he still only lost what? one round? and wasnt hurt at all other than a shoulder injury from punching byrd in the face? He gave an interview after the fight where he wasnt even breathing heavily. His shoulder hurt and he didnt really understand the magnitude of a loss, he was used to kickboxing where fighters fight all the time and its more of a tourney structure. Trust me...he gets it now. He wasnt upset after the Byrd loss, he was totally stoic, he said simply, "i didnt think I could win the remaining rounds...why continue and risk injury?"

We get it, you worship old parkinsoned riddled men. Theres plenty of youtube videos of them and a boxing history section go back and talk about the time when Ali took on Jesus and slayed him or the time when George Foreman punched through the great wall...we get it.

bringing up Cooney like he fought anything like Vitali...Cooney was 2 inches shorter, no where near the same shape, nowhere close to the same style and the COONEY FOREMAN BEAT WAS RETIRED FOR 3 YEARS, IN HIS LAST FIGHT OF HIS CAREER, HAD NOT WON IN 4 YEARS, HAD FOUGHT 6 TIMES IN 10 YEARS. Get out of here with that ****. What the hell are you tlaking about. An old George Foreman beat a retired fighter who in his prime was nothing like Vitali but was kind of tall?

Go back to the boxing history section with your tired ****.

Excellent posts

blackirish got

[Marcov]

Oh the 70's! I was thinking the 80's where at least they had a chance at getting a title. They still would of contended and if later in the decade they might have been able to win a title. In spite of what people her might say Ali had a great chin and worse amazing endurance but most importantly he always found a way to win. We have not this of any of todays heavyweight champions.

There I fixed it for those that might have been sensitive about the wrong decade.

[Die Antwoord]

Ali was in his prime in '67 because he looked his best, was younger, and had not been off in a 3 year hiatus...
I dont understand. So I should just ignore what Foreman accomplished? the fact that he was still beating top opponents way after his prime, out of shape in his midlate 40s shows that in his prime he would have at LEAST done well in his prime in that era. is that really so hard to understand?
Just because it was Ali's best win doesnt mean it was his prime.

I very much dislike Ali as a person, but that doesnt reflect on him as a fighter. Getting knocked down by Cooper early in his career by a very hard flush punch doesnt magically make him ****. Getting hit by a 190lb person flush with good technique hurts more than getting hit by a larger guy with worse technique. being bigger doesnt NOT make you the bigger puncher. hell, a 130lb retired woman boxer hit as hard as a 205+lb MMA male fighter when they did an alike test.
saying that Ali is **** because he got knocked down once early in his career is like saying that Wladimir sucks ass because he got TKOed by a bum. both things are ******.
I said he looked frustrated and had a difficult time hitting Byrd, and got hit flush on the jaw by him near his prime. Out of all the guys that Vitali fought, likely Byrd resembles Ali the most. why wouldnt I bring up that fight?
In fact, I cant stand Ali. he was a moron in his prime, and a total jackass. but that doesnt mean I should ignore the fact he was brilliant in the ring.

I already said 'yes, I know Cooney was not Vitali'. but he was a large opponent, and not a total bum either. I only brought him up because he was a decent opponent who was only a little shorter than Vitali, and Foreman had no trouble whatsoever with height. Foreman would have trouble with Vitali and his particular style maybe...but the height differential would not be a big deal to him.

honestly, grow up. I know you like the Klitschkos and everything, but at least try to have a boxing discussion without becoming a child just because someone disagrees with you.
If it makes you happy, go ahead and stay in lala land. but dont be such a baby.

Ill start with the Cooney point because it just shows what kind of **** and garbage you are willing to spew to hold onto your childhood fantasies. You bring up Gerry Cooney...Gerry Cooney. Gerry Cooney who fought Foreman in freaking 1990. Who had fought 12 rounds since getting beat by Holmes in 1982. He had literally fought 12 rounds since 1982. He had not fought in 3 years and he wouldnt fight again after. So despite being 20 lbs lighter, retired, 2 inches shorter, had not beat a live opponent in 10 years, fought 12 rounds in the last 8 years. Do you understand that HE FOUGHT 12 ROUNDS IN THE PREVIOUS 8 YEARS. Oh yeah...that fight meant a lot. Vitali is 2 inches taller but he fights about a foot taller than Cooney did. He fights off his back foot, he leans back away from punches, he stands tall, again if you want to discuss fights without logic, without belief that size matters at all in boxing or that although Corrie Sanders would have been the fastest man alive in Joe Louis's time, that "athletes were better back then." You have a whole forum for this crap. And since you think the Cooney fight was meaningful, Ali lost to Trevor Berbick dude, hes a total bum. Trevor Berbick. At least be consistent.

Ok, lets take another look at how you are a hypocrite who should go back to the other semi-trogladytic fat old dudes at the boxing history forum, you say Ali was prime in 1967, and that his loss (he cheated so I count it as a loss) to Henry Cooper shouldnt count because he was out of his prime. Hmm, he was knocked unconcious by 185 lbs Henry Cooper in 1963. So that was 4 years. Vitali fought Byrd about the same distance as when he fought Lewis, but yet you say Vitali was prime against Byrd. Vitali was in the 3rd year of being a pro, Ali was in his 3rd year of being a pro when he fought Cooper. Yet that was pre-prime ali, so doesnt count. Why doesnt Vitali get a mythical prime. And Ali wasnt downed once by Light Heavyweights and bums...Sonny Banks also dropped him, Chuck Wepner also dropped him and tons of other guys were just robbed on the cards.

Then you try to criticize Vitali for a fighter hitting him at times with shots that didnt hurt him while Vitali racked up winning rounds with a torn rotator cuff? Its hilarious, this is a joke, again theres an entire history section for this crap. In his prime, as you say, ill make it from Liston to Folley, he never fought anyone within 35 lbs of Vitali, he fought 2 guys over 210 lbs (212 for Terrell, 216 for Chuvalo) and he couldnt knock out either...funny he had no problem knocking out the Light Heavyweights he was fighting.

Vitali is bigger, stronger, smarter, has more stamina, is flat out better than Foreman ever was.

Oh and just for the idiot saying that Vitali couldnt go 15 rounds, cool fact, George Foreman didnt knock anyone out after the 7th round until 1993 (other than Peralta...who was in his 100th fight of his career, a blown up Middle weight, late 30's, but even if you count it, thats 1 person)...he didnt win a fight that went past 10 rounds until 1995...the dude had no stamina, and no one has ever knocked Vitali down...let alone out, and Foreman couldnt throw as hard as Lewis. Anyone who thinks Foreman could win a 12 or 15 round fight with Vitali knows **** about boxing. It is that simple.

We get it you think Foreman is great because he got a lucky punch against Michael Moorer...

Yout schtick is old and tired, every good moment of an old fighters career is material evidence, every mistake has an excuse. Who gives a **** Foreman got worked by a guy deteriorating due to drug use and HIV, he beat moorer...and then for the Klitschko's, every accomplishment is met with a biased subjective viewpoint, "oh, herbie hide sucks" or the best..."blown up Cruiser". If you take Ali's entire career, he fought 9 guys who never weighed below the cruiser weight limit of 200 lbs. So Ali, in his entire career only fought 8 non blown up cruisers, what a joke.

You think a guy who fought only 8 true heavyweights is the greatest heavyweight of all time? Youre a joke.

[Cokezaghe_Loc]

They'd beat the likes of Norton, Quarry, Shavers, Cooney, Bugner, Tex Cobb, Mildenberger, Wepner, Chuvalo.....

I'd favour Ali, Holmes & Foreman over both.

Fights against Frazier and Lyle would be 50-50.

[Dave Rado]

We get it, you worship old parkinsoned riddled men.

Die Antwoord is the sickest, and least rational person on the whole of boxingscene.

[hweightblogger]

The 70s had great HWs!

knowing the competition from the 70s HWs, would the klitschko's be on top and have the belts they got?

I know the competition of the 1960ies and 1970ies. I have seen enough fights (= mostly black and white) to BE UTTERLY UNIMPRESSED.

The fights of the 1970ies are some of the most boring and brain-draining encounters ever. The 1980ies and 1990ies were FAR BETTER.

These fighters back then were great in their times but there is nothing in their arsenal to withstand modern heavies.

Half of Klitschkos' OPPONENTS would have ruled the 1970ies, let alone the Klitschkos themselves.

A far more competitive era than the 1970ies was the Lennox era.

Who would they match up with? who would put a good whoopin on them? Who would call them out to fight?

There was no one that would be REMOTELY competitive against the Klitschkos. The only one who has slight chances is George Foreman (the best fighter of the 70ies) and prime Foreman would be in the BOTTOM-3 LIGHTEST opponents Vitali Klitschko has ever faced.

Just take a thorough look at what-then-was-called heavyweight



This is the greatest Clay in his third year as *cough* HEAVYWEIGHT. And you know what: This member of the "League of pigeon-chested boys" was OUTWEIGHING his opponents MOST OF THE TIME.



That wouldn't even run as cruiser now.

I understand how this "pretty boy next door"-physique could attract gays ("Claymates") but Clay wouldn't even suffice as sparring partner nowadays (and I didn't even mention that Clay was one of the most featherfisted champs ever).

Later the greatest Clay changed his name to mu-HAM-mad and this is exactly how he looked:


In other words: Would Klitschko KO Clay #1 (first career) the fans would complain about how weak Klitschko's opponent was, and would Klitschko KO Clay #2 (second career) they would complain about how out-of-shape his opponent was.

[hweightblogger]

Sanders is the hardest hitting southpaw of all time

No, it's probably Tye Fields (but it's too early to say), but Corrie Sanders is in the Top10 of hardest hitting southpaws.

[Uturn]

Vitali would do well. Neither would dominate. Foreman would absolutely annihilate Wlad though.