This is what I don't get about this Marquez lovefest

[Vasyl’s dad]

when it comes to his bouts and Juan Manuel in general.

Supposedly, he is the better tactician, technician, counter puncher, boxer, slickster, has a high ring iq, makes great adjustments, is textbook, yada yada yada.

In comparison, his opponents are never as tactical, technical, nor do they have the boxing ability or ring smarts to guide them to victory and are simply brawlers by nature.


If Marquez is so much greater at all of these things,

for someone who is practically pictured next to the term, "textbook boxer",

why does this cat get hit so often and knocked down so much?

[OMGLadyGaga]

I never ever post....but this seems like a thread that (hopefully) wont be taken over by all the Pac-Floyd fans that seem to take this board over. The reason that Marquez gets "hit so often" and gets "knocked down" all the time is that the guy is a fighter. Sure he can counter his way to an easy decision most times but the guy loves to stand in there and ****, if Floyd fought the same way he would get hit alot more and dropped way more as well. But Marquez trades in spurts vs guys who are naturally bigger than he is and thus occasionally gets hit hard and dropped, but u gotta admire his amazing ability to get back up and own the rest of the fight.

I am by no means a JMM "fan", I do however love boxing (box myself) and Marquez' abilities as a boxer will always be underrated. Can he beat Pacquiao? No I dont believe that he can, but i also dont think he'll be embarrassed like Hatton, Marg, Cotto etc. have been. If all things were equal JMM would beat Pacman 7 out of 10 times. As things are right now, with Pacman being a cash cow and outgrowing JMM natural size by so much Pac should win easy, but he wont. Its a testament to JMM's skills that those fights arent blowouts.

[Vasyl’s dad]

I never ever post....but this seems like a thread that (hopefully) wont be taken over by all the Pac-Floyd fans that seem to take this board over. The reason that Marquez gets "hit so often" and gets "knocked down" all the time is that the guy is a fighter. Sure he can counter his way to an easy decision most times but the guy loves to stand in there and ****, if Floyd fought the same way he would get hit alot more and dropped way more as well. But Marquez trades in spurts vs guys who are naturally bigger than he is and thus occasionally gets hit hard and dropped, but u gotta admire his amazing ability to get back up and own the rest of the fight.

I am by no means a JMM "fan", I do however love boxing (box myself) and Marquez' abilities as a boxer will always be underrated. Can he beat Pacquiao? No I dont believe that he can, but i also dont think he'll be embarrassed like Hatton, Marg, Cotto etc. have been. If all things were equal JMM would beat Pacman 7 out of 10 times. As things are right now, with Pacman being a cash cow and outgrowing JMM natural size by so much Pac should win easy, but he wont. Its a testament to JMM's skills that those fights arent blowouts.

Great way to put it, and I like it.
So in reality, Marquez is more like Morales and Barrera then people let on.

Both of them could outbox their opponent, but often chose to slug it out when a brawl presented itself.

Thats how I see Juan Manuel. Just like Erik and Marco, he had exceptional skill, but chose to mix it in with a brawlers attitude.

I'm just not digging how much praise he gets for being this "textbook" guy when thats not really how he fights. He gets in there to slug it out just as much as the next guy even though he has the skillset to simply outpoint them. I appreciate the great show he puts on as much as anyone though and for my dollar, prefer to see him fight as such.

When I think of a real technical guy, I don't see them getting hit like that or exchanging wildly either. I just feel Marquez gets praise for something hes not. Don't get me wrong, he deserves praise, but the way people go on about is wrong imo.

[Real King Kong]

i also think it has alot to do with age as of late. if you look at marquez' earlier fights he was much more mobile...when his feet and reflexes slowed a bit he started to get hit more by guys who wouldn't have landed that much on him when he was younger. in the case of pac i don't think he had ever seen that kind of speed but he did adjust to it. to me his decline started somewhere between the 2 pac fights. he is definitely more exciting now that he is forced to exchange more. if someone told me 10 years ago that marquez would become such a warrior it would have been hard to picture.

[2501]

First of all, there's a big misconception that in order to be a 'technician', you HAVE to be this defensive WIZARD who never get's hit. No.

Second, you would have to take a look back at Marquez's career in the first stages to understand why he gets hit so often.

Marquez dabbled in obscurity for a long time because of his counterpunching, denfensive style. He was a Mexican fighter who didn't really fight the way the Mexican people like their fighters to fight. He was being overshadowed by his fellow countrymen, Morales and Barrera.

So in order to obtain more attention and marketability, the Marquez camp made the decision that he would need to be more agressive offensively. You have to take a look at his punch output. Compare it to someone who is more of a defensive technician like Mayweather and you'll see that Marquez's output is significantly higher than Mayweather's. Marquez takes more chances in order to make himself more exciting and appealing. When you open up offensively, you're bound to get hit. Just the way it is.

Dude is a technician. He's a surgeon with his fists.

[OMGLadyGaga]

Yep, exactly. As fans, one of the things that we constantly hear about whenever someone like Floyd, B-Hop, Ward, fights is that they may seem dull and unexciting due to the lack of risks that they take during fights. They always seem to be so concerned with a safety first attitude and win on the cards mentality that they forget that they have fists too and are allowed to knock the other guy out. However they are content to just lay back and win a decision as opposed to firing back and risk being hit in some exchanges. And if you look at the knockdowns that Marquez has suffered during his career all of them have been during a heated exchange where both fighters threw and one landed right on the chin (the only exception to this is when Floyd hit him with one of his step-in lead left hooks).

As for being technical? Or a tactician? Boxing IQ? Counter puncher? JMM is all of these. That doesnt mean that hes not gonna get hit and dropped, it happens to every fighter. Margarito has demonstrated one of the strongest chins in the sport. Besides the Mosley fight when is the last time he was dropped? Or let alone hurt in a fight? Can we say Margarito is a better "boxer" or more skilled than JMM? Of course not, the biggest reasons boxers can go entire careers without being dropped is a lack of risk taking, a superman chin, and fighting soft opposition. JMM definitely takes risks, has a durable chin, and is fighting the top guys in his weight class every time out. Thats also a big part of it, opposition has a big say in wether u will get hit and dropped. Guys who fight the top guys will no doubt have some losses on their record, and even when they win it wont be easy and they might kiss canvas a few times. Add to that, Marquez' increasing age fighting men 10 years younger than him then its easy to see why he can be dropped so much.

On another note, I dont want to see him fight Pac or move to 140 and fight those guys. He can dominate 135 for as long as he wants and doesnt really have anything to prove at higher weight classes. Especially since it was evident by mostly everybody that knows boxing, that his increase in weight divisions was simply to chase Pacquiao into whichever weightclass he migrated to. At this point Manny is too fast, too strong, too big for a blown up featherweight.

[Phil Ivey]

Because he's the most resilient fighter there is, he gets knocked down - but he comes back even stronger. He has suburb accuracy and beautiful combinations. You say he gets hit a lot and knock down a lot, you're right because he likes to go toe to toe and later on he surgically destroys his opponents. His your typical Mexican fighter, all guts and willing to go into a war - he gets caught sometimes but he's never been KO'd or never been able to make the count.

If you knew anything about boxing he IS a technician, making the argument of him getting hit too often is not valid at all. His ring IQ is off the charts, his combinations are simply perfect textbook stuff. He is a technician, if you think otherwise than you haven't done much research. Marquez early in his career was criticized for being too cautious but he was still a very talented counter-puncher, Mexicans love the wars and Barrera and Morales were their two heroes leaving Marquez in the dark. He changed his style to suit the more offensive approach the Mexicans love.

This guy is an another version of Mayweather, but throws more punches/combinations but his defense despite being good had to suffer because of it. But he's similar in ring IQ and accuracy. Its not far fetched at all to call him a text book boxer, btw who do you have in mind TS that you call a text book boxer?

[boguz323]

I think all of these posts above are very well-thought out. Great analysis guys!

[Gino Ros]

As a fight progresses, the two fighters who make the best adjustments and find holes - consistently - to land their punches are juan manuel marquez and floyd joy mayweather.

when you watch the way marquez 'finds' openings and exploits them, it is a thing of beauty. and then he lures your hands away so he can land his shots. for example, the sucker jab he threw at diaz before the goodnight uppercut.

marquez does tend to brawl too much. But last night, he showed you why - i believe - he is a superior fighter to pacquiao. he backpedaled all night landing the punches he wanted. And it was a dizzying array of hooks. jabs, overhand rights, powerjabs, and uppercuts. And, oh, those punches he sank in right above the belt line!! JMM threw every punch in the book off his back foot or against the ropes.

Parts of the fight reminded me of rounds 6-9 of Mayweather-Hatton.


Yeah, I know it was Katsidis and MK never met an incoming punch he didn't want to taste. But JMM's versatility is amazing.

[BoZz]

when it comes to his bouts and Juan Manuel in general.

Supposedly, he is the better tactician, technician, counter puncher, boxer, slickster, has a high ring iq, makes great adjustments, is textbook, yada yada yada.

In comparison, his opponents are never as tactical, technical, nor do they have the boxing ability or ring smarts to guide them to victory and are simply brawlers by nature.


If Marquez is so much greater at all of these things,

for someone who is practically pictured next to the term, "textbook boxer",

why does this cat get hit so often and knocked down so much?

stop crying you little biatch he whooped ur boy twice now get on with ur life u f@g...he stayed true to the division unlike duckquioa who moved up to face people who dont punch back.

its a fact that he received more beating in one fight against jmm than in his last 4 or 5 fights fighting floyds and shanes left overs.