Quote: "Manny Pacquiao is great. Marquez is just as great."

[paulsinghnl]

im mexican and proud of my champs but just because marquez beat pacquiao doesnt mean he is as great
i doubt marquez would have a chance against cotto

I think Marquez makes him as great as Pacquiao because of how he handles himself in a fight. he stays in the fight no matter what. Pacquiao carries the weight better, he has Ariza in his corner for that. Marquez is older, but i think they match in greatness still.

[El Ceja]

This thread reeks of biased opinions!!!

[War Dinamita]

cris john won over and gave hell to JMM.....

does it mean

Cris John=JMM=Pacquiao?

Pac is fighter of the year 3x, what about JMM?

JMM was robbed in his fight with Chris John.

JMM only real loss was to Mayweather.

Was robbed against Pac, John, and Norwood.

[War Dinamita]

Schooled? Umm... No... Again don't let your hate get the best of you carnal.

Now if you thought JMM won both fights, then fine. I can see it. Me personally I thought it was close that it could of gone either way.

However, I think the first fight JMM won clearly the more rounds but with the knockdowns he dug himself in a huge whole.

So there was really no schooling involved. JCC-Whitaker that was a schooling this was not. But, thinking about it a case can be made for the first fight, and first fight only. That Pac schooled but the knockdown and Pac won other rounds after the first had him in the fight.

The 2nd fight, no schooling at all. Even if you had JMM winning 7 or 8(at the most) rounds with the knockdown, there was no schooling.

JMM "outboxed" Pacquiao in both fights. That sounds a lot better.

[BoZz]

Of course he is,first of all we know that JMM had the heart to fight floyd mayweather and there was no excuses of being scared of needles of feeling a big fainty bcoz of it lol

We know JMM is a clean fighter who beat pacquiao twice.

When arica arrived pac suddenly started to beat all these big fighters even tho his career looked finished after the second jmm fight.

[War Dinamita]

Marquez is great, but not as great as Pacquiao. Marquez moved above 135 and failed against Mayweather Jr.... Manny moved up to 140 beat Hatton and he also beat Cotto. Why couldn't Marquez do those feats?

I also hate how fighter like Marquez, Morales will **** on Margacheato one second but the next second claim their rooting for him against Pacquiao. Margacheato is a disgrace to Mexican blood.

Pacquiao is able to carry the weight because he's younger and has a bigger body. Pac is around 5'6, but he has a wide muscular frame. Manny was coming into fights at 140+ lbs when he was in the lower weight classes.

JMM is not even a legit LW because he's a small LW. How do you expect a fighter who is not even a legit LW to move up multiple weight classes? No shame in losing to the best p4p fighter in the world.

[Bretty Poy32]

*** fil ams

[BennyST]

that's fine by me. but your opinion is wrong.

marquez at his absolute physical apex & optimum age (29-30) & weight (126) only managed to get knocked down 3x in one round by a very green, raw, one armed bandit, still developing early 20s pacquiao.

marquez is a first ballot hall of famer, falls short of ATG status & is below a level from pacquiao in terms of legacy.

Still developing early 20's (actually, he was 26 years old) Pacquiao that had just come off the biggest and best win of his entire career, which still is? A still developing Pac that had won titles in three divisions and had been fighting as a pro for nearly ten years with 40 pro fights? A still developing Pac that had beaten champions and had been a champion himself for five years?

They were both in their absolute physical and mental primes. People will try to pretend Pac wasn't, God knows why, just because it can excuse his loss to Morales and the draw to Marquez....Pac would always have lost to a good version of Morales and always would have lost/drawn with Marquez.

If Pac was green against Marquez, then Marquez was on the downhill slope against Pac in their rematch. He was already 31 in their first fight and was 35 in their second. Slower, older, less speed and reflexes etc etc. Still managed to beat him again.

People will always say "Marquez is a late bloomer", ahhhhhh, no. Go watch him in his prime years as a FW in his twenties and you'll see how much of a difference there is between that version and the one that fought Pac in the rematch. Easier to hit, much slower, less reflexes, takes longer to adjust, less power....

Anyway, they were both in their primes the first time around. Supposedly Pac was just coming into his super prime against Marquez in the rematch and yet managed to lose that fight clearer than the first one against an ageing and slowing Marquez.

However, Pac has done more than Marquez. He has accomplished more. A fighters career is based on accomplishments and resume. A fighter like Marquez could have been as great or greater but that will always be the case with someone who is a counter puncher vs a brawlerish type fighter because of the modern cable and TV in which we have to pay to watch fighters.We want to see blood and knock downs etc, so we're more likely to pay for Pacquiao because he's often in fights where everyone is getting beat up.

[paulsinghnl]

Still developing early 20's (actually, he was 26 years old) Pacquiao that had just come off the biggest and best win of his entire career, which still is? A still developing Pac that had won titles in three divisions and had been fighting as a pro for nearly ten years with 40 pro fights? A still developing Pac that had beaten champions and had been a champion himself for five years?

They were both in their absolute physical and mental primes. People will try to pretend Pac wasn't, God knows why, just because it can excuse his loss to Morales and the draw to Marquez....Pac would always have lost to a good version of Morales and always would have lost/drawn with Marquez.

If Pac was green against Marquez, then Marquez was on the downhill slope against Pac in their rematch. He was already 31 in their first fight and was 35 in their second. Slower, older, less speed and reflexes etc etc. Still managed to beat him again.

People will always say "Marquez is a late bloomer", ahhhhhh, no. Go watch him in his prime years as a FW in his twenties and you'll see how much of a difference there is between that version and the one that fought Pac in the rematch. Easier to hit, much slower, less reflexes, takes longer to adjust, less power....

Anyway, they were both in their primes the first time around. Supposedly Pac was just coming into his super prime against Marquez in the rematch and yet managed to lose that fight clearer than the first one against an ageing and slowing Marquez.

However, Pac has done more than Marquez. He has accomplished more. A fighters career is based on accomplishments and resume. A fighter like Marquez could have been as great or greater but that will always be the case with someone who is a counter puncher vs a brawlerish type fighter because of the modern cable and TV in which we have to pay to watch fighters.We want to see blood and knock downs etc, so we're more likely to pay for Pacquiao because he's often in fights where everyone is getting beat up.

great post, so in terms of greatness how do you see it? and what do you take into account?

[chinoy]

did you actually saw the whole fight with John?

and yeah he was also robbed of javier duran and Floyd mayweather

JMM was robbed in his fight with Chris John.

JMM only real loss was to Mayweather.

Was robbed against Pac, John, and Norwood.