-
-
Perhaps I played devils advocate, but to level up early on as well as you've put your comments, I do get a little tired of the next man being "different this time". It doesn't take away my argument, it just avoids/ignores it.
Why on earth would that be more questioned of for Calzaghe, than it would be for Ward. You can't possibly say with Ward's fights so far he's been more tested and proven at the top level than Calzaghe did from when he first became a champion at 24 and then reigned for years proving him self.So, what does mean someone would beat Calzaghe, if not elite skills? You talk as if Calzaghe is invincible and I'd like to know what *you* base that on. What did Joe do that gives you that impression? His "0" isn't enough.
I've said I admire Ward's skills, but name me two things he does considerably better than Calzaghe that'd earn him a win? Calzaghe's not invincible a prime Roy beats him, but I'm afraid this Ward does not, and I'm rightly dubious any future one would be. I lean on cautious rather than over optimistic.
Same was said of "the other guys" so really I'm afraid that doesn't count for much. It's always different this time, or this guy is the real deal. Look he's the best of them ok, but he's not BETTER. Calzaghe was the first Ring champ at SMW whom reigned over a decade beating a better Kessler and moving up successfully. To compare Ward to him already when he's only just become champ is a little insulting and unrealistic. I'd love to see success stores but I'm a realist. Ward's not better now, if he could be great, but don't over hype or wish it. Personally, I don't think we've immediately come across the next best ever SMW. That takes some doing.The "pattern" isn't "repeating" because Ward isn't those guys, he's got more to offer already and he isn't even at his peak. Plus, Calzaghe isn't active, so the pattern can't repeat because a fight between them can't even be mooted beyond fantasy terms - all that can happen is guys who "want" to believe "big things" can sit here and claim Calzaghe would have been unbeatable to every last elite guy who comes down the pike for the next 20 years.
I respect that your a decent fan of Ward's then and appreciate his skills. I want to watch more of him and wish him well. But potential and actual are two different things. Half the entertainment sadly of this game of fewer fights these days, seems to be the what if's rather than what IS. Ward is not better now, and to speak of it now shows over eagerness to want someone to be better than Joe, imo.And some people expect big things because they see talent and a confluence of elements required to make an exceptional boxing career, and understand what that talent and makeup could potentially achieve. Those in the know understood what Ward was capable of and what strings he had to his bow.
He deserved to be rightly credited for that win, but it's his first title win and now he's some kind of super hero that would beat any SMW, most LHW's, and the best ever SMW. That's pretty extreme. My saying woh there horsey, is not extreme, it's more measured.So what if Ward was more touted after Kessler? Isn't that true of any fighter's emergence into the light? How much was Joe touted before Lacy or Kessler, even in Britain? LMAO. Ward's credibility didn't grow "exponentially", he was always considered to have great potential. People who didn't really know that much of him jumped on the wagon after, that's standard. Happened to Calzaghe after he pounded on Lacy.
Calzaghe in beating Eubank for his first title win was no the best ranked SMW, he wasn't favoured against every SMW, and most LHW's, or as world wide recognised, looked up for big fights. So it's no the same at all. Calzaghe reigned for 10 years with a lot of the public not seeing enough of a true story of him that many still didn't favour him against other top SMW's that he eventually smashed, any he didn't someone else did it for him. Can that be said of Ward.
Even when moving up to LHW he wasn't that well backed, it was a conflicted case on one hand of he's only beating an old man and he could still get his ass handed to him in the other. What does that say? Ward after one more win I bet you, merely one more win, will be favoured over any other SMW or LHW by the majority of the boxing public. That's leaps and bounds more than Calzaghe got in even 5 years, and that isn't in line with the skill and achievements.
Hey I've not read every comment in here and heck there's gona be a good mix of ****** or biased comments all over. Only a minority on these boards are slightly more unbiased and fair. That's NSB.Right, so then it's not an issue, unless we're also going to bring up the alarming number of Brits in this thread claiming Ward has "no chance" with Calzaghe.
But the fact is for every 1 biased Brit on these boards, there's 20 Americans.
And I bet you thought that was a dig.
Well it wasn't my friend, it was mostly a simple account of demographics and ratios.Comment
-
So many bitter limey slags in this thread.
It's OK, you still have Ricky Hatton!
Comment
-
Calzaghe gives him a beating ala Lacy. Theres nothing Ward does that Calzaghe doesnt do better. The best thing for Ward is his inside fighting and Calzaghe would kill him on the inside. Ward has no chace at all, based on his style.Comment
-
Calzaghe is a easy fight for WardComment
-
Close fight, but Ward has never fought anyone with Super Joes skill set. Joe by close UD in an ugly, ugly fight. Joe will be cut up from headbutts.Comment
-
LMFAO!!!!!!!!
Golden.
El C@cique@PR
Ward doesn't have a "his style". He has a lot of looks.
Your argument isn't really anything to do with boxing, though. It's to do with groups of internet pundits. Kasme.
What, the idea that nobody can beat them? Well, as far as Calzaghe's seeming invincibility is concerned, there's a hugely deceptive element there. Calzaghe was very good, but nobody can reasonably deny that his résumé lacks weight, whether that's his fault or not, the opposition isn't there to prove his unimpeachability, it's mostly stats. That brings Calzaghe down to the mortal realm with Ward.
Joe was as bad a style matchup for old Hopkins as old Hopkins was for Joe, due to Hopkins' age as much as anything, and he really should have been able to defeat Bernard decisively if he was as great as you're saying. I mean, Pascal could well get a decision over Hopkins and that guy slows down ⅔ of the way through fights and isn't some ATG level fighter.
It doesn't just come down to two areas of Ward's game, it would be how he put it all together that would be the key to beating Calzaghe. You can't name two things that Joe does much better than Ward, either. All you can say is that he throws more, but there are answers to volume.
You're talking about it being insulting to compare a guy like Ward to Calzaghe like Joe has this stunning ledger ***eled with elite W's behind him. He doesn't. He has 2, maybe 3 wins that could be considered elite in realistic terms (and 1 of those is controversial, whether you care to admit it or not).
Dude,
"Calzaghe was the first Ring champ at SMW whom reigned over a decade",
You're standing behind a statistic, and it's a less meaningful one than you're making it out to be. It's an accomplishment, yeah, but it's all relative, you have to look at the events behind the stats, because stats can mislead. Calzaghe's defences weren't all that strong and 168, a division still in its infancy, was pretty weak in Joe's time.
Potential and actually realizing potential are two different things, huh? Ok, tell that to Super Joe and his fans, because Joe failed to realize a chunk of his.
Again, it comes down to your perception of Joe's accomplishments, which isn't "measured" at all, it seems to be vastly inflated.
I'm referring specifically to fighters becoming more touted after a big 'coming out party' type win. That's exactly what happened with Joe. That Joe sat in his backyard for 10 years before it happened, whereas Ward took on a Kessler -- and it wasn't a deteriorated Kessler, no matter how some may spin it -- and took him apart early in his career, doesn't change that Calzaghe's stock went up hugely after he beat Lacy. You're arguing degrees of acclaim and fan-banter here and it's irrelevant to my point, which is that any fighter's stock will go up after an emphatic triumph in a big fight they weren't favored to win. It's the way it is.
Wasn't "that well backed"? How do you mean? As I recall, the majority of pundits predicted a JC win and his US debut was greeted by some fanfare.
Hopkins was old. Joe did get his ass handed to him in a fashion, and that's from someone who wanted him to make an impression and show the States what he could do. I don't agree with your opinion of Hopkins' performance - it's boxing and the old man was entitled to fight according to the strategy that could win him the fight. If he didn't fight, how come he landed the cleaner, more effective punching throughout and busted Joe's flawless features? If it was a younger Hopkins, you'd have seen a more aggressive performance, but it was an older Hopkins, fighting according to his age, and he still gave Joe fits. What does that say?
You just seem to be basing an argument around a group of opinion that existed on Joe 2 and half years ago instead of acknowledging the reality re. Joe's standing.
Joe is not a top 100 ATG. He just isn't, Kris.
I'm not so sure, there's a strong British presence here, as proved by this thread. What I will say is that I've noticed more impartial Americans here, besides the homers, than I've noticed impartial Brits. Significantly more (Motofan above me is just one example).Comment
-
Prime calzaghe would make easy work of ward, workrate n skills pay the bills.Comment
Tweet
Comment