Interesting video on drug test issue

[deejd]

[QUOTE=mikemurni;9509310]

Sure, because I am sure you were right about Morales weight, right?

That would apply if Morales was being talked about, but it was you stating that PWill was scared to fight Clottey.

Mosley was never an option, moron. Arum and Pac were waitin’ for Cotto/Clottey fight expectin Cotto to win. More money for Pac and Arum to fight Top Rank fighter in Cotto, than to share revenue with GBP by fightin’ Mosley

If Mosley was never an option, Why would he be mention by Pacquiao's team, specifically Roach, in interview after interview? Now you're lying and it's okay, I'm accustomed to hearing lies from Pacquiao and his faithful supporters.

When was the failed first negotiation? When is Pac fightin Marg? Find a relation with those date, and see if you find one?

Sheer ignorance, brick. Sheer ignorance. I feel bad for you.

Sure, because Berto has fought the best fighter’s at WW, right?. Can you name one, please?

Can you name one that Clottey beat? How about Mosley? How about Margarito? I'll give you a hint; you can't name a single fighter for Clottey.

He said couldn’t move beyond ’47 so his next fight was ’47. So how did he lie??
’50 is on November 2010. ’47 was in Mar ’10. Pac interview with Kenny was Nov ‘09. Failed May-Pac first negation was Jan’ 10. See the chronology of events, now? Or you still wanna spin the issue?

It doesn't matter, he was talking with Foreman about another title fight weeks after he told that lie about not exceeding in weight. Then he still went up to '47, didn't fight who he was suppose to... and now, he's going up even further. He lied, it's okay, you should be accustomed to it by now.

I am not desperate, you are just confused...as always

Brick strikes again.

Sure, because a reply like “Huh?” is rich source of information for a response… Hey???

Good job, brick.

Pac ask for a catchweight from the start. Cotto was amenable for ’45 but nothin’ less. The ’47 was never goin’ to fly with Team Pac at that time. Stop using analogy on topics you don’t know **** about..

And Cotto didn't want to fight at a catchweight, especially when Roach proposed the weight at '43. That was the intial weight. Cotto said he couldn't go lower than '46. That's when Roach wanted '44 and he eventually suckered him into '45, all while ignoring Mosley's request to fight at '43 and '40. The analogy makes perfect sense for this scenario. Roach knew Cotto wouldn't be dumb enough to fight at '43 after his poor showing against Clottey and he talked him into the exact spot he wanted him.

Roach is part of Pac’s training team. Negotiations are not done without him. Both GB and Top Rank agreed to 147… No one wanted to drag DLH to ’47 because he of his last fight..Stop makin’ **** up

Clearly you didn't watch DLH-Forbes when they fought at '50. So as soon as you do that, you'll understand why Roach wanted him at '47. For the same reason he wanted Cotto at '45. Brick.

[thebowtod]

All these conspiracies are pointless, both guys are just being ******* and don't want to fight each other. You can point fingers at who ever you want, but we shouldn't be having this conversation. This fight should have happened

[FloydTBE]

this fight needs to happen

[mikemurni]

Your statement uses an opinion, not a fact:

"Who gives a **** about the persona which he tries to reveal on tv. If Floyd wants to have a reputation as a prick outside the ring then so be it. But don’t ask boxing fans to trust him on whatever he says. Because if he says that he was tryin to “clean up the sport”, then how the **** do we know that he is really sincere about that ****."

My statement simply was made based off your opinion. That's called counterpointing.

Floyd Sr. made the accusation, yet it's Jr. and GBP that are supposedly suppose to be in court? You say, that's what justified their demand, but what justifies their $10 million penalty demand at the '47 lb. limit when it's been proven that Mayweather has made that weight every single time he's contractually signed to fight at that weight limit?

WTF you talking about? Our argument is about Floyd’s conviction on drug testin’. You mean Floyd’s conviction on drug testing is based on Pac’s request for a $10 million penalty clause as an insurance? I suggest you get your subject straighten first, and then make your counterpoint from there.

Brick, you seize to amaze with your unparalleled ignorance. Not only have you admitted that Pacquiao hasn't fought the best fighters through re-posting my point, but on top of that, you emphasize the point that Pacquiao could be using by going through so many weight classes in such a short period of time. Double Whammy! Thank you very much, brick. You're starting to understand now.

Who brought up the topic of Pac not fightin’ the best fighters? You
Was your last reply related to the topic that you started? No
Did you change the subject? Yes, you changed it to steroid testing

Conclusion: You are a moron who wants to change the subject because you just got owned.

Emotionally attached... How? For proving that Toney was caught while he was being trained by Roach? Then proving Toney was caught again, in another later incident. Whether he name Roach at a trial or not doesn't matter. He was with Roach at a time when Justin Fortune (steroids) was still working with Roach at Wild Card. Justine Fortune leaves Roach in '07, enter Alex Ariza and his "special blends." To easy, brick.

Emotionally attached for twisting facts with fiction. Emotionally attached for tryin’ to make a non-issue and blowing it up out of proportion
Was Toney investigated? Yes
Did Toney dragged Roach’s name? No
Would have it been easier for Toney to user the trainer as the fall guy? Yes
Did NSAC even brought Roach’s name in their investigation? No
Conclusion: Roach did not have anything to do with Toney’s steroid use. You want to twist those facts now.


See above.
Yeah, I saw you getting owned. That's what I saw

STFU? A tad perturbed are we?

So how do you explain a home decision for two fighters that aren't from that country? Guzman, who is Dominican, fights for GBP. Funeka, who is South African, fights for GSP. They fight in Canada. You clearly didn't watch this but let me give you a rundown; from round 3 to 12, Guzman get his face punched repeatedly, is knocked down late, trying to survive, and has a huge gash in his face. All the judges are appointed by GBP, and what looked to be an easy UD turns into a draw that even Guzman and his corner are in heavy 'awe' to believe.

Explain that and tell me fixes don't happen. Also, you telling me "if you have proof" is like me telling you "unless you were right there with Mayweather negotiation on his behalf" or you telling me "unless you made the special blends and handed them to Pacquiao." A bit of a stretch don't you think.

Fact is that I've provided proof of fixed fights and don't be surprised if Novemeber 13th, you actually witness one.

Do you have any proof that GB paid the judges? Show me the source then we can talk. Otherwise its all speculation and bull**** from your part.

When was Nevada ever going to host? Whatever California decided was going to be across the board for Nevada.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl...ory?id=5453281

Texas, which can be considered crooked when it comes to the sport, would be more than obliged to take money to host that fight. Arum has money, Jerry Jones has loads of money, it's not hard to sway the little ol' Texas commission to let a cheater get a license. add it up, guy, you even said it yourself, finally something sensible;

"Texas granted Margarito the license because the fight would generate millions of dollars in revenue for the state." -brick

Conspiracy? If Pacquiao were to lose, Arum would be done, that's all he has to generate money. Even when Margarito was winning, even after Cotto, he couldn't draw. Cotto was the biggest draw after Pacquiao and he doesn't even do major numbers. If Pacquiao loses, Arum is nothing and he knows that.

Oscar lost 4 times and he is still a marketable fighter. And I got news for you if Floyd loses he would still marketable. Their names are already established in mainstream media.
NSAC said to Margarito to just apply for a license with CSAC. That’s what is just goin to take.

Anyway I will continue the rest later..

[IMDAZED]

Thats says as much about your eye for spotting things than anything else, plus, I dare say you see what you want to see, given that your mind was made up a long time ago. If you watched the Barrera fight, you will clearly see a noticeable difference in head movement, patience.

Marquez fight was different cause JMM is his poison, a counter puncher, but even then, you saw him drop JMM with a counter, and in the Diaz fight, he put on a clinic of counter punching, only you want see this stuff cause like I said, you have made up your mind, have your agenda.

Im off to bed now, will respond in the morning.

Here's what I'm referring to. Prior to the second Marquez fight, Freddie Roach droned on and on about the technical improvements Manny had made in the four years since and thus, the result would be the different. Needless to say, it wasn't.

Here is the first round. Watch Manny alternate beautifully between sharp head movement, feints, side to side...just impressive stuff--even when Marquez lands.



Manny does this well early on. As the fight plays out, however, Manny's mechanics - and memory - begin to slip. Look here in round six as he stands in front of Marquez and basically waits to get tagged. After that happens, he begins to recall but is going through the motions without rhythm.



This of course, leads to Marquez landing more and more. By now, Pacquiao's movement has become pretty predictable.



In the end, there is no question that Manny has improved technically over the span of God knows how many years he's been with Freddie. However, if you're implying that this somehow is why he's been so superior in the higher weights, I totally disagree...and Juan Manuel Marquez wants to know why the **** his technical superiority ain't cutting it! LOL, I'll check the thread tomorrow.

[mpwr]

Here's what I'm referring to. Prior to the second Marquez fight, Freddie Roach droned on and on about the technical improvements Manny had made in the four years since and thus, the result would be the different. Needless to say, it wasn't.

Here is the first round. Watch Manny alternate beautifully between sharp head movement, feints, side to side...just impressive stuff--even when Marquez lands.



Manny does this well early on. As the fight plays out, however, Manny's mechanics - and memory - begin to slip. Look here in round six as he stands in front of Marquez and basically waits to get tagged. After that happens, he begins to recall but is going through the motions without rhythm.



This of course, leads to Marquez landing more and more. By now, Pacquiao's movement has become pretty predictable.



In the end, there is no question that Manny has improved technically over the span of God knows how many years he's been with Freddie. However, if you're implying that this somehow is why he's been so superior in the higher weights, I totally disagree...and Juan Manuel Marquez wants to know why the **** his technical superiority ain't cutting it! LOL, I'll check the thread tomorrow.

because that fight is @ 130 where Manny was weight DRAINED you idiot!

[IMDAZED]

because that fight is @ 130 where Manny was weight DRAINED you idiot!

After five rounds? Maybe. Maybe not.

[deejd]

Thanks for reinforcing my point, moron… Proof..
Davis the ****** (post #263): Naturally, Pacquiao said no. Mayweather-Mosley agreed to full random testing and went through with it. It's been done successfully now, neither competitor complained about it, and it was made clear that full random testing is the deal on the table, take it or leave it.

Me (post# 268): So what!! This just means that Mosley, who was never in a position to bargain, and was force to agree to the blood testing

Mosley wasn't forced to agree to anything. He could have done what he did with Judah and walked away. He could have done what Pacquiao did and walked away. Judah wasn't subjecting himself to random testing, he requested it of Mosley and Mosley only. In this case, both fighters were subjecting themselves to testing. Mosley man'd up and said "let's fight." I repeat, Mosley didn't have to agree to the tests.

Let's continue....

Davis the ****** (post #271): I think an admitted steroid user who just came off knocking out a fighter who had never been knocked out let alone knocked down throughout their career would be open to agreeing to testing, if not, how would that look?

Me owning your ass (post#274): That’s right. By the way, did Mosley accept Judah’s offer for a more stringent drug test? How did that turn out? This is because if I recall, Schaeffer and Mosley told Judah to **** off when he propose to have the test.

So after all that bull****, you finally agreed why Mosley agreed to random testin’ against Floyd, which was the issue to begin with.. One word moron: leverage[B]

It's funny how you're points always falter. It's not leverage, it's the fact that it's on a bigger stage. Not many people know that testing was requested for Mosley by Judah, why? Casual fans of the sport never knew Judah and Mosley was once a signed fight that actually had a press tour. Sr. and Roger claimed that Mosley was "on something" when he beat Margarito, but we don't hear about Mosley filing a defamation suit against them or even entertaining the notion. He took the test because he wanted to, not because he had to. Mosley wasn't forced to take any tests. He took the liberty to subject himself to the same testing Mayweather did. There was no talking cutoff dates, it was simple. Mayweather: "random testing." Mosley "Okay let's fight."

No you won’t. You would have found a way to spin the **** in his favor. Because you like the taste of his nuts so much

I guarantee I would question Mayweather if he refuted testing. I'd question Mosley, PWill, Donaire, Lara, Cunningham, Ponce De Leon, the late Valero, all the fighters that I watch, if they didn't agree to random testing if it was ever requested. To not question the ****e in performance considering this particular fight has a lot of miles and has been in some wars prior to the new found success, would be naive. If Mayweather does request random testing for his next fight, be it Pacquiao or whomever, I'd give him flack, no question. You ride Pacquiao to the death though, that's apparent, and it's okay. You've made it known that you like nuts though.

Right there, your quote “Mayweather didn't want to compromise from 0 to 14” just owned your entire argument. If he made a counter offer of 0 to 14 to Pac, irregardless whether Pac was being stubborn on the date, then that means he already compromised his conviction on the drug testing. Verdict: Not about cleaning the sport..

If he wasn't trying to clean up the sport then he would've just agreed to 30 days... or 24 days... But he didn't. Like I stated before, He offered 14 days and was willing to risk his health for the sake of making the fight happen and Pacquiao rejected. Once he did that, the deal went back to 0. Do you want to talk about what happen from there. How Mayweather stated it's full random testing or no fight all? Want to talk about how Pacquiao lied about agreeing to full random testing?

Now, here's the awesome part about this, here's the so-called "villain" of boxing proposing to the "face" of boxing, random testing and what's the "face" of boxing's response, "uhhh no, afraid of needles, superstitious, I'm weak, he's bigger than me, 30 days." Your clean, all natural hero rejects 14 days in January, but then he wants 14 days when that option isn't available in May. So not only is Mayweather still proving to clean up the sport by supporting random testing like he did to begin with, but he doesn't even pay mind to that final pitch of 7 days. Clean up the sport indeed. Agree to the tests, that simple, brick.

Pac didn’t demand the OST, moron. He does not have to agree to anything. He could have just away walked from the start. Floyd should even be elated that Pac when through all this charade with him.

But he didn't walk away did he? He just decided to put a cloud over his recent accomplishments. Sounds like brick logic to me.

No it wasn’t.. Final offer by Floyd on ’09 was 14 which what everybody especially the ***** was fair at that time. Then Pac offered 7, and then Floyd took a vacation

No, 14 days was the final offer in January, brick. At that time, Pacquiao and his legion felt 24 was safe enough. Deal was swiped, 0 day cutoff from there on out. The proposal was 0 day or no fight at all, there was no bluff. Anything that doesn't state full random testing, gets no mind. Stop lying about agreeing to the test and actually do it.

No it wasn’t everything discussed in a close door session meeting with a media blackout at the same time. You just want to make everybody believe that it did.

The articles were read in chronological order and I followed this specifically every single day after the Cotto fight because I've wanted this bout to happen just for Pacquiao to be exposed since boxing is trying to force this guy into everybody's brain, and really, it's not Pacquiao's fault at all. The guy is just a victim of the people around him with their own greedy agendas. The truth will come to light, and you'll see, brick.

You listen to yourself?? It should have been 41 contracts and 41 honored, moron.. Everythin’ else you spew there is just crap..

Now show me when Mayweather never made the '47 lb. weight limit....? Go find it... Find the fight at 147 lbs. that Mayweather contractually agreed to where he didn't make weight....

USADA is not a governing boxing body.. NSAC is, so what are you talking about?

Yeah but how is Vitaly, Pac, and Mosley now?

But NSAC wouldn't be administering the testing, USADA would be. Random testing has nothing to do wit the commission at this point. USADA is being appointed by the fighters. Simple enough?

Nobody cares about one, another is hampered by speculation, and the last is rounding out their stellar career.

So the best way to win a losing argument is change the subject. That’s your motto now. Proof:

Davis the ******: "Actually, you're wrong. If you actually looked at the date of the source I provided where Arum states that there are "open talks between Pacquiao and foreman," Roach also is quoted as saying this is because negotiations have "stalled with Mayweather," and guess what, that article was printed Dec. 1st, 2009. That means negotiating started before December. Chronology is great right!"

Me: "Yeah that rights, ignore what the fighter said in November and instead use quotes from his promoter (made in December), whom by the way you consider as liar and a scumbag as reference for your argument. WTF, Pac made that statement after the 145 lb fight with Cotto that he cannot go beyond 147. So he fought Clottey at 147. So how the hell did he lie?"

Davis the ******: "Why not use quotes from December, that was the most recent right? I mean, he is fighting above '45 right? He says he fought at '47 but Pacquiao never did until he fought Clottey. So to say he never intended on exceeding in weight, well, he did. Another lie, yet again, but apparently that's what you hate and support at the same time. "

Me: "Yes it was great that you use quotes in December, which is more recent, except that you didn’t get it from the same source. Pac made the quote in November so if you want to get a sound byte if the fighter had a change of heart, then you should have gotten a quote in December from him and not from anyone else."

We were talking about whether Foreman being a possible fight for Pac at ’54 was even entertained by Pac. How is that post even related to this topic.

Again, you've avoided the fact that not only was Foreman the leading candidate for Pacquiao but "open talks" happening between the camps about Pacquiao fighting at '54. Like I stated, this was being discussed in November... oh! Not only November, but I provided a source stating that Arum and Roach were considering Foreman when the fight with Mayweather fell through. Good job reinforcing the point and failing to re-post my statements that Foreman was considered a candidate after failing with Mayweather. Brick always delivers.

[deejd]

[QUOTE=mikemurni;9509781]

WTF you talking about? Our argument is about Floyd’s conviction on drug testin’. You mean Floyd’s conviction on drug testing is based on Pac’s request for a $10 million penalty clause as an insurance? I suggest you get your subject straighten first, and then make your counterpoint from there.

It's not hard to follow, you're making it complicated for yourself. Find the fight at 147 that Mayweather didn't make the weight for. If you can, $10 million penalty is justified, if not, than it's not unreasonable, just an unreasonable amount

Who brought up the topic of Pac not fightin’ the best fighters? You
Was your last reply related to the topic that you started? No
Did you change the subject? Yes, you changed it to steroid testing

Conclusion: You are a moron who wants to change the subject because you just got owned.

And I listed all of the great competition he didn't face. Then, you made this fascinating point that he's fought these "great" fighters, 6 to be exact, over 4 weight classes in 24 months. That, THAT, is when I was enlightened that not only has he not faced the best competition available, there's a possible that he could be dirty in the process. Are you now starting to understand how you continue to remain, brick?

Emotionally attached for twisting facts with fiction. Emotionally attached for tryin’ to make a non-issue and blowing it up out of proportion
Was Toney investigated? Yes
Did Toney dragged Roach’s name? No
Would have it been easier for Toney to user the trainer as the fall guy? Yes
Did NSAC even brought Roach’s name in their investigation? No
Conclusion: Roach did not have anything to do with Toney’s steroid use. You want to twist those facts now.

No, I'm pretty sure there's no emotional attachment. Just solid facts that Roach trained James Toney when he was caught for steroids and that Freddie Roach has worked with Justin Fortune who has also been caught using steroids.To think Roach has no knowledge of steroids or how they work would be close minded. That doesn't translate for Pacquiao faithfuls though, and it's okay. Roach is contradictory, your words.

Do you have any proof that GB paid the judges? Show me the source then we can talk. Otherwise its all speculation and bull**** from your part.

I provided examples of admitted fixed fights. They happen in the sport. It's alright, deal with it.


When was Nevada ever going to host? Whatever California decided was going to be across the board for Nevada.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl...ory?id=5453281

Texas, which can be considered crooked when it comes to the sport, would be more than obliged to take money to host that fight. Arum has money, Jerry Jones has loads of money, it's not hard to sway the little ol' Texas commission to let a cheater get a license. add it up, guy, you even said it yourself, finally something sensible;

"Texas granted Margarito the license because the fight would generate millions of dollars in revenue for the state." -brick

Conspiracy? If Pacquiao were to lose, Arum would be done, that's all he has to generate money. Even when Margarito was winning, even after Cotto, he couldn't draw. Cotto was the biggest draw after Pacquiao and he doesn't even do major numbers. If Pacquiao loses, Arum is nothing and he knows that.

Oscar lost 4 times and he is still a marketable fighter. And I got news for you if Floyd loses he would still marketable. Their names are already established in mainstream media.
NSAC said to Margarito to just apply for a license with CSAC. That’s what is just goin to take.

Anyway I will continue the rest later..

As a matter of fact, Margarito applying for his license in CA just shows that he wasn't planning on fighting in Texas to begin with. If you can't see that there were strings pulled, you're blind. I just provided a source that states that Nevada was going to do whatever California decided. If that's the case, a lot of commissions may have followed suit. The guy could have permanently damaged or killed somebody that night.

Jerry Jones has money, Arum has money, Texas wanted money, let's approve the dude. Arum: Margs, you owe me.

[-Johannes-]

because that fight is @ 130 where Manny was weight DRAINED you idiot!

wow who really believes this shit?