Comments Thread For: Abraham: Floyd Mayweather Would Beat Manny Pacquiao

[hitking]

Manny was giving him a rematch and JMM turned it down because they wanted more money. if im not mistaken team Pac offered him $750K and turned it down and went to Indonesia to fight Chris John for $32,000 and lost.

I rememeber it being an issue, but I remember it more as Pac kinda pricing himself out. Either way, he didn't fight him until after the loss to John. Personally at that point, I didn't see the point of taking the fight. But it turned out to be a great fight that I actually thought JMM won. Roach has a habit of matching Pac with guys coming off of loses and bad performances. Can't argue too much with Pac's choice of opponents over his career. But personally, I would like to see him fight guys coming off big wins and great performances in big fights a little more.

[hitking]

Manny's resume was better than JMM even before the rematch. has a better resume after the rematch. was a P4P King even before a rematch. if his fight wasnt legit because you believed they manage his career carefully why he has been a P4P king until now? are those writers, boxing experts couldnt see what haters and *****s can see? or they are *******s because they think Manny is the best and has been the best since 2008. he proved it in the ring. unlike Mayweather who "would have" always win against any welterweights but fails to prove it in the boxing ring.

He's really only been the "undisputed" P4P King for a very short peroid between the de la Hoya and Cotto fights. When Mayweather left in 2008, many people thought Pac lost the rematch with JMM. On tghe various P4P lists, you would see Pac #1 on some, JMM on others, and Calzage on others. Pac really didn't "win" the P4P crown until his win over de la Hoya. And after Mayweather's win over Mosley, several credible P4P lists (including the one on this site) moved Mayweather ahead of Pac to #1 on the P4P lists. Its pretty much split in half depending on which list you look at. So in reality, there is no unquestioned P4P King at the moment.

Either way, the mythical title is really meaningless concerning my post. I said that Pac has been carefully managed, and that's true. After the first JMM fight, he's fought a lot of fighters coming off of loses abd bad performances. Each of the three times he fought Morales, Morales was coming off of loses. As I stated, JMM had lost to John before the rematch with Pac. De la Hoyah ad gotten busted up pretty good by "2 Pound" Forbes in his fight prior to fighting Pac. Hatton was damn near KO'd by Juan Lazcano two fights prior to fighting Pac. Cotto struggled with a B Class opponent in Clottey and was KO'd by Margarito prior to fighting Pac. Clottey lost to Cotto in his fight prior to fighting Pac. Margarito was destroyed in his last real fight against Mosley. If you don't notice a pattern there, I don't have a clearer way to point it out to you. Pac's a great fighter, but he's been managed and matched very smartly and carefully in his career.

[joelab75]

I rememeber it being an issue, but I remember it more as Pac kinda pricing himself out. Either way, he didn't fight him until after the loss to John. Personally at that point, I didn't see the point of taking the fight. But it turned out to be a great fight that I actually thought JMM won. Roach has a habit of matching Pac with guys coming off of loses and bad performances. Can't argue too much with Pac's choice of opponents over his career. But personally, I would like to see him fight guys coming off big wins and great performances in big fights a little more.

they didnt fight after JMM fought Chris John. the rematch happened after 4 yrs. i think fighting a guy who was coming off from a loss would be more dangerous specially if they are bigger than Manny and was as good as Cotto and Clottey. i know you wouldnt agree Clottey being a good boxer but before he fought Manny he was in a top 5 welterweight and had lost 3 closed decisions which some of those loses could have gone in his favor. he has size, power, great defense and some speed for his size.

[Clint650]

almost lost is not the same as actually losing. Pacquiao fought JMM in his prime and his best weight. if they had fought in Manny's best weight we wouldnt have this conversation. who the h ell did he beat in a lightweight that Manny couldnt beat? Cotto, Marg and Clottey would destroy JMM in 144 lbs. more than the beating he took from Floyd. if you look at his resume and took off Manny in his resume who did he really beat and fought to be considered one of the best boxers today? he almost lost to a past his prime ahd shot Barrera in JMM's prime. imagine JMM fighting a prime Morales? Morales would probably shut him down.

still, you do not seem to understand that i said he fought the best. its one thing to assume Manny beats everyone @ 135 and @ 140 it's another thing for him to actually do it. you see how it works. this was back when Guzman, Campabell, and Casamayor were running the division and Roach even said himself that Guzman would have been tough @ 135 so please don't assume that Manny owns everyone in those two divisions. id love to see Manny fight some of the young guys @ 140 since i know he can make the weight as opposed to Floyd. Floyd i would think could easily transistion into 154 just because it's a bigger challenge. i think Manny @ 147 suits him since thats where he has a speed advantage over most and he still carries his power. younger guys @ 140 like Khan and Ortiz and even Bradley and Alexander all have interesting styles to match up well with Pac @ 140. but only @ 140. Manny would crush JMM for sure @ 140 and above but i think it';s still an interesting match-up @ 135.

[hitking]

they didnt fight after JMM fought Chris John. the rematch happened after 4 yrs. i think fighting a guy who was coming off from a loss would be more dangerous specially if they are bigger than Manny and was as good as Cotto and Clottey. i know you wouldnt agree Clottey being a good boxer but before he fought Manny he was in a top 5 welterweight and had lost 3 closed decisions which some of those loses could have gone in his favor. he has size, power, great defense and some speed for his size.

I've always felt that fighting guys coming off of loses is lame. I'm not a person that feels a guy is done after a loss. But, I do feel a guy should have to get back in line after a loss. I felt Pac should have fougt Raheem instead of rematch with Morales. I felt like the Clottey fight was a total waste of time for the supposed best fighter in the world. First of all, Clottey's resume is garbage. His claim to fame is being compeitive against top fighters. His best wins are against a washed up Judah and a totally shot "Chico" Corrales. Plus, he was coming off of a lost to the guy Pac had just KTFO. I have only not ordered two Pacquaio PPVs. I didn't order the rubbermatch with Morales and I didn't order the Clottey. It was a bull**** fight that Pac is too great a fighter to been involved. Very similar to the one he'll be involved in next month.

[joelab75]

He's really only been the "undisputed" P4P King for a very short peroid between the de la Hoya and Cotto fights. When Mayweather left in 2008, many people thought Pac lost the rematch with JMM. On tghe various P4P lists, you would see Pac #1 on some, JMM on others, and Calzage on others. Pac really didn't "win" the P4P crown until his win over de la Hoya. And after Mayweather's win over Mosley, several credible P4P lists (including the one on this site) moved Mayweather ahead of Pac to #1 on the P4P lists. Its pretty much split in half depending on which list you look at. So in reality, there is no unquestioned P4P King at the moment.

Either way, the mythical title is really meaningless concerning my post. I said that Pac has been carefully managed, and that's true. After the first JMM fight, he's fought a lot of fighters coming off of loses abd bad performances. Each of the three times he fought Morales, Morales was coming off of loses. As I stated, JMM had lost to John before the rematch with Pac. De la Hoyah ad gotten busted up pretty good by "2 Pound" Forbes in his fight prior to fighting Pac. Hatton was damn near KO'd by Juan Lazcano two fights prior to fighting Pac. Cotto struggled with a B Class opponent in Clottey and was KO'd by Margarito prior to fighting Pac. Clottey lost to Cotto in his fight prior to fighting Pac. Margarito was destroyed in his last real fight against Mosley. If you don't notice a pattern there, I don't have a clearer way to point it out to you. Pac's a great fighter, but he's been managed and matched very smartly and carefully in his career.

he didnt pick Dela Hoya. it was the other way around. it wasnt Manny who set all the rules. it was Oscar. he thought he could beat Manny because Manny had been fighting in 130 lbs and below all his career and only had 1 fight in a lighweight division. 99% of the boxing experts and even boxing fans picked Oscar to win.

Manny beat Hatton in his best weight. he was a lineal champ. he may have almost K.O. by Lazcano but he still clearly won the fight. no robbery. then K.O Malignagi before facing Manny.

Clottey was a dangerous fighter. he may be a B class fighter like u said he was but he will give anyone in a welterweight division a hell. except of course Manny. Cotto and Clottey were a full time welterweight and bigger than Manny. would you rather see Manny fighting a lightweight to come in a catchweight of 144 lbs? its a no win situation for Manny. if he had choose to defend his jr welterweight title instead of fighting Cotto or Clottey people would say he duck those guys in a welterweight.

[joelab75]

still, you do not seem to understand that i said he fought the best. its one thing to assume Manny beats everyone @ 135 and @ 140 it's another thing for him to actually do it. you see how it works. this was back when Guzman, Campabell, and Casamayor were running the division and Roach even said himself that Guzman would have been tough @ 135 so please don't assume that Manny owns everyone in those two divisions. id love to see Manny fight some of the young guys @ 140 since i know he can make the weight as opposed to Floyd. Floyd i would think could easily transistion into 154 just because it's a bigger challenge. i think Manny @ 147 suits him since thats where he has a speed advantage over most and he still carries his power. younger guys @ 140 like Khan and Ortiz and even Bradley and Alexander all have interesting styles to match up well with Pac @ 140. but only @ 140. Manny would crush JMM for sure @ 140 and above but i think it';s still an interesting match-up @ 135.

Manny already won 4 lineal titles. what more do you want from him? staying in 135 lbs and fight those guys? after destroying Hatton do you honestly believe people would cheer for him if he stays in 135 lbs? like ive said it was a no win situation for Manny. i didnt say he can own the division but Manny has proven himself over and over again how great fighter he really is. i dont think staying in a 135 lbs would have been a wise decision after he destroy Hatton. after JMM rematch who would have thought that his best weight would have been in 147 lbs? if u were a boxer who's best weight was 147 lbs, would you have gone down to 135 lbs to fight challengers or would you have challenged yourself and fight bigger guys?

if you think Alexander, Bradley, Berto, Khan and Ortiz has a little chance against Manny Pacquiao i think you need to re watch those guys last fight and compare it to Manny. Cotto in 140 lbs would destroy those names you mentioned.

[hitking]

he didnt pick Dela Hoya. it was the other way around. it wasnt Manny who set all the rules. it was Oscar. he thought he could beat Manny because Manny had been fighting in 130 lbs and below all his career and only had 1 fight in a lighweight division. 99% of the boxing experts and even boxing fans picked Oscar to win.

Manny beat Hatton in his best weight. he was a lineal champ. he may have almost K.O. by Lazcano but he still clearly won the fight. no robbery. then K.O Malignagi before facing Manny.

Clottey was a dangerous fighter. he may be a B class fighter like u said he was but he will give anyone in a welterweight division a hell. except of course Manny. Cotto and Clottey were a full time welterweight and bigger than Manny. would you rather see Manny fighting a lightweight to come in a catchweight of 144 lbs? its a no win situation for Manny. if he had choose to defend his jr welterweight title instead of fighting Cotto or Clottey people would say he duck those guys in a welterweight.

I never had a problem with Pac fighting de la Hoya. Actually, I got a helluva kick outta seeing de la Hoya pick a fight with a little guy and then getting his ass kicked. As for Hatton, again I have no problem with Pac fighting him. The fight reminded me of when Mayweather fought Genaro Hernandez for the lineal 130 strap. Hernandez had gone up and was KO'd by de la Hoya in a bid for a ligthweight belt, much like Hatton by Money in a bid for the welter strap. But, Hernandez was lineal champ and unbeaten at 130, like Hatton at 140. Have no problem with the fight. That said, I not gonna tuen a blind eye to the fact that Hatton appeared to be semi-shot heading into that fight. Great win for Pac. But to say he fought Hatton at his best is pushing it. As for Cotto, didn't have a problem with that fight. Cotto was on everyone's P4P list, so it was a legit fight. Didn't care for the catchweight, but Cotto agreed to it. But, Cotto didn't look very good against a B Class fighter in Clottey and was KO'd by Margarito. To say he fought Cotto at his best would again be ushing it, IMO. You ask would I rather he defend the lineal 140 strap opposed to fighting guys like Clottey and Margarito. I would prefer it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Bradley is showing up on most P4P lists. Alexander is more dangerous than Clottey or Margarito. So is Khan. Pacquaio is fighting B Class fighters and covering it up with the, "they're bigger than me" angle. Bigger isn't always better. A great big man beats a great little man. But, in Clottey and Maragrito, Pac isn't facing great big men. A great big man may be a great little man. But a great little man will beat the **** outta an average big man. I'd much rather that great little man fight good fighters that are his size than nig guys that suck any day.

[joelab75]

I never had a problem with Pac fighting de la Hoya. Actually, I got a helluva kick outta seeing de la Hoya pick a fight with a little guy and then getting his ass kicked. As for Hatton, again I have no problem with Pac fighting him. The fight reminded me of when Mayweather fought Genaro Hernandez for the lineal 130 strap. Hernandez had gone up and was KO'd by de la Hoya in a bid for a ligthweight belt, much like Hatton by Money in a bid for the welter strap. But, Hernandez was lineal champ and unbeaten at 130, like Hatton at 140. Have no problem with the fight. That said, I not gonna tuen a blind eye to the fact that Hatton appeared to be semi-shot heading into that fight. Great win for Pac. But to say he fought Hatton at his best is pushing it. As for Cotto, didn't have a problem with that fight. Cotto was on everyone's P4P list, so it was a legit fight. Didn't care for the catchweight, but Cotto agreed to it. But, Cotto didn't look very good against a B Class fighter in Clottey and was KO'd by Margarito. To say he fought Cotto at his best would again be ushing it, IMO. You ask would I rather he defend the lineal 140 strap opposed to fighting guys like Clottey and Margarito. I would prefer it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Bradley is showing up on most P4P lists. Alexander is more dangerous than Clottey or Margarito. So is Khan. Pacquaio is fighting B Class fighters and covering it up with the, "they're bigger than me" angle. Bigger isn't always better. A great big man beats a great little man. But, in Clottey and Maragrito, Pac isn't facing great big men. A great big man may be a great little man. But a great little man will beat the **** outta an average big man. I'd much rather that great little man fight good fighters that are his size than nig guys that suck any day.

how many class A fighters in a jr welterweight division to say that Manny has been fighting a B class opponents? in my opinion NONE. ask boxing experts and i believe they would agree with me 95% of the time. how many times you doubted Manny only to destroy his opponents? oh let me rephrase it. how many times boxing experts and boxing fans doubted Manny only to proved them wrong? you know what im saying? did u see Alexander last fight? if you think Manny will have a problem with Alexander or Bradley i think we're not watching the same Manny here.

im my opinion Margarito is way better opponent than any of the jr welterweight at this point.

[hitking]

how many class A fighters in a jr welterweight division to say that Manny has been fighting a B class opponents? in my opinion NONE. ask boxing experts and i believe they would agree with me 95% of the time. how many times you doubted Manny only to destroy his opponents? oh let me rephrase it. how many times boxing experts and boxing fans doubted Manny only to proved them wrong? you know what im saying? did u see Alexander last fight? if you think Manny will have a problem with Alexander or Bradley i think we're not watching the same Manny here.

im my opinion Margarito is way better opponent than any of the jr welterweight at this point.

Honestly, the last time I picked Pacquaio to lose a fight was the first Barerra fight, and in my heart I felt he would win that one. I was simply swayed because he was moving up in weight fighting a great fighter. I've picked Pac to not only beat, but destroy everyone he's fought since. And I don't think you have an understanding of styles. Bradley, Alexander, and Khan to an extent present something that Pac has trouble with, and that's lateral movement. In those guys he's also facing guys that aren't just completely trumped by him in the speed department and would be totally outdone by his hand and foot speed. In Margarito, he's facing a statue that is basically impossible to miss. Outside of him following Pac around the ring eating shots, he has nothing else to offer. The most Margarito can hope for is to eat up shots and hope Pac will wear down, which he won't. I'm not saying I'd pick any of the top guys at 140 to beat Pac. Hell, I'd pick him to KO all of them. But, all of them are better fighters than Clottey and Margarito and would have been much better options and much more meaningful fights, IMO.