Comments Thread For: Haye versus Harrison: A-farcemaker or legitimate fight?

[Dave Rado]

I'm not sure what Haye's plans are. I don't think he is as big of a coward as people are making him out to be. I have always seen him as a motivated guy that will come good on what he says eventually.

He says that he wants retire next year so he has to fight the K bros soon. I just don't see him retiring without fighting them. That would be a big shocker for me!

"Coward" is a loaded word. I wouldn't disagree if you said he's an astute businessman, who expects to lose to either brother and is therefore playing the risk-reward game for as long as possible in order to make as much money as he can before he runs out of options and has to step up.

As the other guy said, he's almost certainly planning to fight Vitali eventually rather than Wlad, if he does fight either of them, because Vitali is slowing down with every month that goes by, whereas Wlad is improving. He'll never fight Wlad. I'd bet my life on that.

I think there probably was a time when he genuinely thought he had a decent chance against both brothers. But then Wlad's performance against Chambers, who is a more defensively skilled boxer than Haye, and is almost as fast as Haye, but who was never able to get past Wlad's jab to land a clean shot, made him think again. Wlad's improvement under Steward has been as dramatic as Lewis's under Steward or Pacquiao's under Roach. And then Haye's terrible defensive performance against Ruiz (ignored by most of the nuthugging British press), in which Ruiz was able to land his jab practically at will, probably decided him once and for all that to fight Wlad would be suicide for his career. If Ruiz could bust up Haye's face with his jab, imagine what Wlad's far faster, more accurate, and much more powerful jab could do.

But then Wlad calls him out on youtube and calls him a bitch. So what does Haye do? He has to go into negotiations or he loses his credibility even with the slavishly loyal British media. In the hope that he can stymie the negotiations up front, he declares in advance through his manager that he won't accept anything less than 50/50. To his surprise and horror, Wlad offers him 50/50. He then pulls out of the negotiations and says nothing for two months, waiting until both Klitschkos have signed to fight other fighters, before making any statement on why he pulled out.

Finally, he admits that he turned down 50% of the purse, but in an Orwellian twist that defies all logic, tries to pretend that 50% of the purse is not 50/50.

Some of the British press then report that he has taken the Harrison fight because both Klitschkos have already signed to fight other fighters - without mentioning that he turned down a highly lucrative offer to fight Wlad this year. Some othet journalists report that he wasn't offered 50/50, even though he's admitted that he was. And some report that no one knows why the negotiations broke down, despite the fact that he admitted having turned down a 50/50 purse offer with no rematch clauses to fight Wlad. All in all, British journalism has behaved disgustingly, presumably out of a misguided patriotism. And the British public is apparently willing to pay to see Haye fight a 39 year old journeyman who has never beaten anyone meaningful in a 10 year pro career, and who recently lost to a cab driver, because of the fact that the press are reporting it as if it were a meaningful fight, and are glossing over Audley's pathetic record, and hiding the fact that Haye has blatantly ducked the Klitschkos.

It's all very sad, and very bad news for the sport I love.

[WladIsTheChamp]

"Coward" is a loaded word. I wouldn't disagree if you said he's an astute businessman, who expects to lose to either brother and is therefore playing the risk-reward game for as long as possible in order to make as much money as he can before he runs out of options and has to step up.

As the other guy said, he's almost certainly planning to fight Vitali eventually rather than Wlad, if he does fight either of them, because Vitali is slowing down with every month that goes by, whereas Wlad is improving. He'll never fight Wlad. I'd bet my life on that.

I think there probably was a time when he genuinely thought he had a decent chance against both brothers. But then Wlad's performance against Chambers, who is a more defensively skilled boxer than Haye, and almost as fast as Haye, but who was never able to get past Wlad's jab to land a clean shot, made him think again. Wlad's improvement under Steward has been as dramatic as Lewis's under Steward or Pacquiao's under Roach. And then Haye's terrible defensive performance against Ruiz (ignored by most of the nuthugging British press), in which Ruiz was able to land his jab practically at will, probably decided him once and for all that to fight Wlad would be suicide for his career. If Ruiz could bust up Haye's face with his jab, imagine what Wlad's far faster, more accurate, and much more powerful jab could do.

But then Wlad calls him out on youtube and calls him a bitch. So what does Haye do? He has to go into negotiations or he loses his credibility even with the slavishly loyal British media. In the hope that he can stymie the negotiations up front, he declares in advance through his manager that he won't accept anything less than 50/50. To his surprise and horror, Wlad offers him 50/50. He then pulls out of the negotiations and says nothing for two months, waiting until both Klitschkos have signed to fight other fighters, before making any statement on why he pulled out.

Finally, he admits that he turned down 50% of the purse, but in an Orwellian twist that defies all logic, tries to pretend that 50% of the purse is not 50/50.

Some of the British press then report that he has taken the Harrison fight because both Klitschkos have already signed to fight other fighters - without mentioning that he turned down a highly lucrative offer to fight Wlad this year. Some othet journalists report that he wasn't offered 50/50, even though he's admitted that he was. And some report that no one knows why the negotiations broke down, despite the fact that he admitted having turned down a 50/50 purse offer with no rematch clauses to fight Wlad. All in all, British journalism has behaved disgustingly, presumably out of a misguided patriotism. And the British public is apparently willing to pay to see Haye fight a 39 year old journeyman who has never beaten anyone meaningful in a 10 year pro career, and who recently lost to a cab driver, because of the fact that the press are reporting it as if it were a meaningful fight, and are glossing over Audley's pathetic record, and hiding the fact that Haye has blatantly ducked the Klitschkos.

It's all very sad, and very bad news for the sport I love.

Bravo green K given, now only if the Brit fans took their head our of their @ss and finally realized what Gaye has been doing to them for the past 2 years - blatantly lying at every turn, turning down multiple fights with the Klitschkos or backing out of them with fake injuries, making excuses, and taking them for fools with the memories of gnats. Didn't Diva Gaye and her manager say that they would never fight Fraudley and lo and behold they signed a fight. How ****** is the average Brit?

[Dave Rado]

Bravo green K given, now only if the Brit fans took their head our of their @ss and finally realized what Gaye has been doing to them for the past 2 years - blatantly lying at every turn, turning down multiple fights with the Klitschkos or backing out of them with fake injuries, making excuses, and taking them for fools with the memories of gnats. Didn't Diva Gaye and her manager say that they would never fight Fraudley and lo and behold they signed a fight. How ****** is the average Brit?

Very few Brit fans on these boards stick up for Haye any more. Timba and Mr Blobby are unfortunate exceptions, but the vast majority have turned against him. As for the casual fans who will be paying to see him fight Harrison, they know next to nothing about boxing, and are just swallowing the propaganda they read in the papers. They are more to be pitied than censured, but it doesn't make them ******, it makes them uninformed. The British journalists who are defending Haye don't have that excuse though.

But thanks for the green, much appreciated.

[beez721]

Wlad is a boring, robotic fighter who makes insomniacs reach for their pillows. He is the direct cause of HBO's abandonment of the HW division. Face it, Dr Boring is a boring, dull, depressing fighter, who can't even spell exciting. The only people who seem to like him are Germans who mistake his fights for a night at the opera. Because the crowd doesn't get loud at Wlad fights, they can sit in peace and drink fine champagne.

Haye is the real deal. He brings brash power, speed, and skill into the equation. He sold 800,000 PPV's vs Valuev, and he will sell 1,000,000 PPV's vs Harrison. Wlad couldn't dream of doing those numbers. Haye is the attraction my friend and deserves a 50-50 across the board split.

Wlad needs to stop making insane purse demands, and have the courage to face the Hayemaker.

lmao if you think haye deserves 50/50. no one outside of england even knows who the hell he is fool. he should be drooling at wlads proposal instead hes cowering like the ***** he is. lol,,,,I still cant believe hes actually fighting fraudley harrison. what a joke of a fight

[Neckodeemus]

I've just glanced through the article itself and was flabbergasted by a lot of it, the above sentence being typical. Audley has never fought anyone approaching world class before, despite having been a pro for 10 years; and Lewis never came close to even fighting cab drivers, never mind losing to them. Lewis was ranked #3 in the world coming into the Holyfield fight, whereas Audley is ranked #42.



And that's just funny. If Haye shared your belief, he'd be fighting one of them by now, instead of a man ranked #42 in the world.

Hello, it would seem that way upon first glance but you should read the actual article itself as I make it quite clear that neither man compares to Lewis or Holyfield in terms of accomplishment, though Haye, undisputed at cruiser and a world title holder, is slowly getting there. In fact, I explicitly state that if you took the absolute best of both men, Harrison and Haye, you'd make one Lewis in terms of style and physical gifts.

I make more of a comparison between the circumstances as Lewis was widely derided in some quarters prior to the first draw with Holyfield, in fact he had failed to dethrone a reigning holder at this point and many felt he was another over-hyped Brit.

Going further back, remember how much criticism Holyfield had to deal with going into the first Bowe fight? Questions over his size and strength, even his chin at the higher weight, going in were washed away in the fight itself, even though he lost. Sure, it can be fun to endlessly talk about a fight before it happens but I prefer to make one or two comments and then see where things lie after the event. Audley won't win the fight but he'll win some respect after it in my opinion.

As for the fight itself. Is it really that worse than the Peter or Briggs fights? None of these upcoming matches cover the fighters or the division in glory and all three, Haye and double K, need a bit of a shake as they are doing the division a disservice. That said, we keep getting told that boxing is a business and in that sense the fight makes sense as it will sell hugely over here, and elsewhere, the tickets have flown out and the more people like, me and the other posters endlessly talk about it the larger the event becomes as it stays at the forefront.

It amuses me to be honest, since the fight has been announced I've lost count of forum posts that read, 'I've no interest in this fight at all (but I am prepared to log on, type a post, submit it and check every hour on the hour for replies)'. It is what it is and people who are burning their bras in protest ought to blaze two more up for the upcoming K2 contests, as they are pointless.

However, I digress, there is more to the article than the quoted criticism, you just need to read between the lines, though this would actually involve reading the lines themselves in the first place, not skimming and slamming, which is pretty poor form if you want to make your own analysis using a quote as your jump off.

Cheers for the half-read and cheers to anyone else who read it, much obliged.

[Dave Rado]

I make more of a comparison between the circumstances as Lewis was widely derided in some quarters prior to the first draw with Holyfield

To compare the sort of derision Lewis faced at that time with the sort that Audley faces now is just crazy. Lewis was universally rated among the top 3 Heavyweights in the world, had already fought and beaten several world class fighters, and his only loss was to a borderline world class fighter. Audley fully deserves to be derided. He is a low level journeyman, who has never fought a top 20 fighter, has lost to four journeymen, including to a cab driver, and all that despite having been a pro for 10 years. The circumstances are not remotely comparable, however much you try to spin it.

in fact he had failed to dethrone a reigning holder at this point and many felt he was another over-hyped Brit.

Some felt he was over-hyped to some extent, but no one disputed that he deserved to be ranked among the top 3 in the world. Harrison doesn't even get into the top 40.

Going further back, remember how much criticism Holyfield had to deal with going into the first Bowe fight? Questions over his size and strength, even his chin at the higher weight, going in were washed away in the fight itself, even though he lost.

Holyfield was still considered a tremendous fighter, albeit unproven as a Heavyweight at that point - similar to some extent to how Haye was considered a year ago before he started ducking the Klitschkos, although Holyfield's Cruiserweight record was vastly superior to Haye's, and crucially, Holyfield never ducked anyone.

As for the fight itself. Is it really that worse than the Peter or Briggs fights?

Peter is ranked #8 by boxrec, and he has been Wlad's mandatory ever since Povetkin pulled out. Furthermore, before signing to fight Peter, Wlad first tried to make a fight with Haye, even getting the IBF to agree to sanction it ahead of his mandatory, but Haye refused to fight him.

He then tried to make a fight with Povetkin, who is a top 5 fighter, but Povetkin refused to fight him. Peter then became his mandatory, so he signed to fight his mandatory. Furthermore, the last time they fought, Peter gave Wlad a lot of trouble, scoring three knock-downs; and Peter has clearly trained harder for this fight than he has trained for several years. Because of that, the fight has a fair amount of intrigue.

In any case, Peter has never lost to anyone who wasn't world class or at least borderline world class, and has beaten several far better fighters than Harrison. If Peter and Harrison were to fight each other, Peter would knock Harrison out within 3 rounds.

Briggs is a joke, but Valuev refused to fight Vitali, Haye wasn't interested either, and at least Briggs was world class once. Audley has never been even close to being a prospect since he turned pro 10 years ago, never mind being world class.

Both Klitschkos want to fight Haye, whereas Haye does not have any desire to fight either Klitschko, or not yet; and he turned down a straight 50/50 offer with no rematch clauses to fight Wlad this year. To compare Haye's choice of opponent with theirs, in such circumstances, is just crazy.

Furthermore, both Klitschkos have fought and beaten a string of top 10 fighters, in Wlad's case, 10 top 10 fighters in a row. Haye has so far only fought one top 10 Heavyweight, a man who was generally ranked #6 at the time, and only managed to get a majority decision against him, in a close fight. He has fought two Heavyweights who were ranked well outside the top 20, and is about to fight someone ranked outside the top 40. After all his trash talking, and all his claims to be the saviour of the division, for him to turn down a fight with Wlad in order to fight Audley is simply pathetic.

[Kulle]

Haha I knew that this clown would fight only Harrison. What a piece of **** Haye is. I hope Harrison knocks him out so he might just shut up.