No One In History Has Won More Lineal Titles In Different Weight Classes Than Manny

[jrosales13]

Is JMM better than zab and Baldo absolutely. All I said is floyd actually fought the lineal champ to win the title. That has to count for something. IMO it is worth more than beating someone and being awarded the lineal title.

Then we agree to disagree.

Pac and JMM were the 2 best fighters in the division. And, they fought for the lineal title. I mean going by your logic nobody now who is the lineal champ is really worth greatly cuz somewhere somebody fought for the vacant title to fill up the shoes. How did Baldomir win the lineal title? Nobody beat Tito for it.

Don't tell me that Floyd beating Baldo is worth more than Shane and Forrest fighting for the vacant lineal title.

Also like Roy and I was talking right now. Lineal champ doesn't necessary mean the best fighter in the division. It just doesn't it means you the man who beat the man. But, not necessary the best. Roy Jones was always the best fighter in his division even though there were other iineal champs.

When JMM and Pac fought for the vacant lineal title it was the 2 best fighters in the division. When Floyd and Baldomir fought they were not the 2 best fighters in the division. Floyd fought the man who beat the man but not the best fighter.

So I just can't see how is that worth more than Pac beating JMM for the vacant lineal title

[jrosales13]

c'mon enlighten us oh wise one.

There were more than 8 divisions by the 1960's.

Are you enlightened now?

[madsweeney]

Is JMM better than zab and Baldo absolutely. All I said is floyd actually fought the lineal champ to win the title. That has to count for something. IMO it is worth more than beating someone and being awarded the lineal title.

So your saying that if Pac and May face off for the WW lineal (which is currently vacant) it will be of less importance than Mayweather beating Baldo since he "was the man"?

[Twako]

There were more than 8 divisions by the 1960's.

Are you enlightened now?

so how's that much different from what i said? i did mention 1960s and that's where most intermediate weights were starting to get recognized by major sanctioning bodies. and didnt i say half a century? so off by a few years like 1959 and you act so high and mighty? lol gtfoh.

[Chuckguy]

Then we agree to disagree.

Pac and JMM were the 2 best fighters in the division. And, they fought for the lineal title. I mean going by your logic nobody now who is the lineal champ is really worth greatly cuz somewhere somebody fought for the vacant title to fill up the shoes. How did Baldomir win the lineal title? Nobody beat Tito for it.

Don't tell me that Floyd beating Baldo is worth more than Shane and Forrest fighting for the vacant lineal title.

Also like Roy and I was talking right now. Lineal champ doesn't necessary mean the best fighter in the division. It just doesn't it means you the man who beat the man. But, not necessary the best. Roy Jones was always the best fighter in his division even though there were other iineal champs.

When JMM and Pac fought for the vacant lineal title it was the 2 best fighters in the division. When Floyd and Baldomir fought they were not the 2 best fighters in the division. Floyd fought the man who beat the man but not the best fighter.

So I just can't see how is that worth more than Pac beating JMM for the vacant lineal title

I think his problem is that you dont acknowlege Floyds win at 147 over the lineal champ at the time. but you are quick to point out manny's win over JMM for the vacant title

[el rey]

I disagree I am sorry.

I give more credit to Manny or winning a vacant lineal title against the best SFW in JMM even going life and death than winning a lineal title against the man who beat the man in Baldomir.

And, Corrales wasn't the lineal champ. That was for the vacant ring title with the 2 best fighting each other. Hernandez was the lineal champ at 130.

If we're going to be fair here, Pacquiao fought only 1 fight at junior welterweight and that was against Ricky Hatton which some fans will call a 'british bum' but when it involves Pacquiao, those same very fans will call him, "one of the greatest 140 lbsers". Pacquiao won the title, but does that make him an automatic top junior welterweight? If you're to prove yourself as the legit champ, then dominate it and accomplish it like Chavez did, Tszyu did and that's I don't get Manny's accomplishments. The way some Pac fans disregard Baldomir's capture of a belt is just as insulting to Pac since he was able to win a title against a fighter at both 135 lbs and 140 lbs. Should really garner him those 2 weight divisions? Before anyone get's butthurt, I'm questioning the guys titles not his skill , so relax. He KO'd both those guys and I'm not trying to take that away...just the significance

[Twako]

Your sarcasm only highlights the gap in knowledge between the two of you.

lol you act as if you were born then, it's all googled knowledge anyway. one gets to it before the other, why the attitude then?

[jrosales13]

In this day and age, the original 8 means nothing more than any of the new 8 divisions. Winning the lineal title at 130 is no less meaningful than winning it at 135. Would anyone say that whoever is crowned the lineal champion at 168 is less prestigious than Pascal's crown at 175?

Of course not. But, when you trying to compare Pac to fighters from the turn of the century you have to bring this up. Is not fair to say well George Dixon never won 4 lineal titles in 4 weight-classes like Pac. Dixon didn't have all the divisions Pac did to get that chance. You know what I am saying. Is just not a fair comparison.

I can see the Canzoneri and Armstrong debate. I disagree with it but I can see it since they did have the 130 and 140 pound division to work with. However, Armstrong going to MW against the lineal champ and get a questionable draw that should of went his way IMO makes that argument not so strong.

When I talk about Pac lineal claims I like to compare it to 40-50 years ago since there were lots more divisions and less excuses could be made. And, there were still numerous ATG's 40-50 years ago.

[The Big Dunn]

Then we agree to disagree.

Pac and JMM were the 2 best fighters in the division. And, they fought for the lineal title. I mean going by your logic nobody now who is the lineal champ is really worth greatly cuz somewhere somebody fought for the vacant title to fill up the shoes. How did Baldomir win the lineal title? Nobody beat Tito for it.

Don't tell me that Floyd beating Baldo is worth more than Shane and Forrest fighting for the vacant lineal title.

Also like Roy and I was talking right now. Lineal champ doesn't necessary mean the best fighter in the division. It just doesn't it means you the man who beat the man. But, not necessary the best. Roy Jones was always the best fighter in his division even though there were other iineal champs.

When JMM and Pac fought for the vacant lineal title it was the 2 best fighters in the division. When Floyd and Baldomir fought they were not the 2 best fighters in the division. Floyd fought the man who beat the man but not the best fighter.

So I just can't see how is that worth more than Pac beating JMM for the vacant lineal title

Not my logic at all. My only point is "best in the division" is subjective while "lineal champ" is not. Manny was "awarded" the lineal title he did not "win" it. Subtle diference but difference non the less.

Its difficult to argue reputation vs wins/losses. Baldo may not be the "best" but he had more "accomplishments" then the other guys who we all feel would beat him easily.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Funny how you've got people in this this thread bringing up the old days and the lack of jr. divisions.

The reason its funny,

when it was Floyd that had more than Manny, and that same exact point had been brought up,

"who cares, that was then, this is now". But now that Manny has more,

its back to, "back in the old days....".

Dude I been here since 2005. No one ever said that man...lol.