Comments Thread For: Team Berto Takes Bad Stance on WBC Mandate

[Dave Rado]

OK, for Antrob and Mr. Rado...

The magazine ratings were mentioned in context of where Aydin was listed by impartial non-WBC en****** in this matter. The specific issue at 147 was that Aydin was not in the magazine's Top 10, but Cotto, who's a reigning champion at another weight class; and Bradley, who's also a champion elsewhere and has fought just one time at 147; are in its Top 10 at welter. I'm not quite sure how that makes sense.

Sorry, the way you worded it in the article didn't make it obvious to me that that was what you meant.

I can see why both those inclusions are highly debatable, but I wouldn't call either of them indefensible.

After only one fight at a higher weight, maybe they're just waiting a little to see if Cotto moves back down, given that he hasn't actually stated that he has no plans to do so - like they kept Williams in their rankings for a short while after he started fighting at higher weights. I'm pretty sure they'll remove him if his next two fights are both a Jr Middleweight.

Bradley is a bit harder to justify, IMO, but it's very similar to the situation when Pac beat DLH and they temporarily ranked Pac at Welterweight, on the basis that they thought he might keep fighting at the weight, and on the basis of how good he had looked. They removed him when he signed to fight Hatton (and then reinstated him when he beat Cotto). Similarly, if Bradley goes back to Jr Welterweight, as he's expected to do, I imagine they'll remove him from their Welterweight rankings.

But if all you're really saying is that Aydin is a borderline top 10 fighter, then I agree. But he isn't in boxingscene's top 10 either, so "borderline" is the right word.

The broader reason for including the magazine in the second half of the piece is in response to the tendency for people to view its rankings and its champions as the be-all and end-all for the sport. When, in my view anyway, it's not.

I agree it's not the be all and end all - no single rankings are or ever will be. But they're the most respected, and IMO, deservedly so. That said, in individual instances, I often prefer boxingscene's rankings to The Ring's. Occasionally I prefer boxrec's or the IBO's but not in general.

Also, the only independent rankings list that goes beyond the top 10 is boxrec's, so I and most people use boxrec's rankings as a yardstick for anyone ranked lower than 10, not as a be all and end all, but as a decent and respectable guide, and as the only decent guide in town.

As I pointed out, the magazine's own policy states the three ways a champion loses a title. So in theory, an incumbent could defend for 10 years without ever facing a No. 1 challenger. If you can explain to me how that's good for boxing, I'd be happy to hear it.

They do tend to put pressure on fighters to voluntarily relinquish their titles if they don't defend them against the leading competition for a long period, which is why Pac is no longer their Jr Welterweight champion.

I can't think of any instances where they have continued to recognise a Ring champion who has avoided the top competition for a long period.

I agree their championship policy is seriously flawed because of their lack of mandatories, but that policy is an understandable reaction to the alphabets' history of frequently stripping fighters for not fighting people who either had no business being so highly ranked in the first place, or in situations where they were fighting an even more meaningful opponent instead, so should have been given more time to fight their mandatory. Although I and most people agree that Berto should fight his mandatory now, few criticised Dawson (for example) for fighting Tarver and Johnson in preference to his mandatories at that timer, which would have been considered far less meaningful fights by most people.

And the lists of Ring champions usually contain far fewer clear anomalies than any one of the alphabets' lists, IMO.

Also, the IBO has never enforced a mandatory.

A bigger problem for the Ring championship than the one you mention, IMO, is that most boxers just don't seem to be interested in it, presumably because it has less commercial spin-off than the alphabet belts. Hence most of the Ring titles are usually vacant, because the #1 and #2 in a given weight class don't want the Ring belt enough to fight each other for it. While that remains the case, discussion of their lack of mandatories is a secondary issue, because until boxers start to value their belt, they won't care whether they're stripped or not in any case.

What would be good for boxing, IMO, is if the three major alphabets used independent rankings rather than their own corrupt ones. Their mandatories would then be far more credible, and it would be far harder morally and credibility-wise for boxers to avoid them.

[Dave Rado]

Reasonable post. By Jones I'm referring too Mike Jones, the new guy who Berto's ducking

Anyone who accuses him of ducking Jones is only doing so because they're totally obsessed with US fighters. There are many fighters more deserving of a shot than Mike Jones. He's not ranked by The Ring, and is ranked #20 by boxrec, for the simple reason that so far he's only fought journeymen. If you'd have said Jackiewicz or Zaveck or Senchenko, they might have a point, but to accuse anyone of ducking Jones at the point is ridiculous. People in the US seem to think that if a fighter doesn't regularly fight in the US, he doesn't exist. But he does.

and even though Mosley and Cotto are in different weight classes, many people would still say that Berto's ducking them.

Then they're being completely irrational and their opinions are worthless.

I agree he should either fight Adyin or be stripped, but I still see him being criticized if he fights Adyin. The 10/2 3-header HBO's doing is putting him inbetween a rock and a hard place, but I do think his best option is to fight Adyin, keep the belt and survey his options.

Agreed.

[Ryn0]

Aydin doesn't deserve his shot, Jo-Jo Dan schooled him last time out.

[Dave Rado]

Aydin doesn't deserve his shot, Jo-Jo Dan schooled him last time out.

The judges' decision is always final, even when it's a robbery. That said, the WBC should have granted Dan an immediate rematch.

[throbk1974]

I say strip him. If he doesn't want to defend his title, strip him and see if he can make big fights off of his name, with no title. He seems to be ducking, and without a title, he'd probably get "ducked" himself.

[The Gambler1981]

Well Berto should probably just wipe Aydin out but if no one wants to buy the fight for TV and he doesn't want to fight overseas then the fight is really a non starter.


I don't really see it as a big deal either way though.

[antrob]

OK, for Antrob and Mr. Rado...

The magazine ratings were mentioned in context of where Aydin was listed by impartial non-WBC en****** in this matter. The specific issue at 147 was that Aydin was not in the magazine's Top 10, but Cotto, who's a reigning champion at another weight class; and Bradley, who's also a champion elsewhere and has fought just one time at 147; are in its Top 10 at welter. I'm not quite sure how that makes sense. As for where boxrec has Cotto at 154, it's immaterial to this discussion about Aydin and welterweight ratings.

The broader reason for including the magazine in the second half of the piece is in response to the tendency for people to view its rankings and its champions as the be-all and end-all for the sport. When, in my view anyway, it's not. As I pointed out, the magazine's own policy states the three ways a champion loses a title. So in theory, an incumbent could defend for 10 years without ever facing a No. 1 challenger. If you can explain to me how that's good for boxing, I'd be happy to hear it.

Your full of it. Your obviously taking a shot at The Ring that is completely unnecessary. Maybe the reason Aydin isn't rated by The Ring, is because of his lack of resume and the fact many considered his last victory a gift decision or another nobody.

Maybe Bradley shouldn't be ranked in the top 10 in their rankings, but can you really argue against Miguel Cotto? He fought once at 154 and he might fight at that weight again in December but their is nothing signed yet.

Another thing, can you name one instance when a fighter held onto his Ring title for 10 years with out fighting a NO. 1 contender. NO you can't you just throw out a worst case scenario, that would never happen and use that as a reason on why The Ring is wrong.

Stop being so biased. I didn't see you write nothing negative about the IBO after the Danny Green vs Paul Briggs fight. What kind of self respecting organization would sanction a fight for a "world title" when even the commission where the fight was supposed to take place wouldn't let the fight happen in their jurisdiction.

The Ring is lite years ahead of any ABC organization. If you would get over your IBO fetish you would see that.

[fitzbitz]

Hey, Antrob... your repeated (and ******ed) shots at me via the message board would warrant a tad more consideration if you could master even the most basic elements of the English language.

So, until there's evidence you know the difference between your and you're - or you are, for that matter - you're (hint, hint... that's "you" and "are" combined) cordially invited to read someone else's stuff. Or to kiss my ass.

Whichever you'd prefer.

[superchile]

ever since he pass on rematching collaso and ducking mosley berto has been fighting guys from jww and now he wants to duck his mandatory to fight another jww the guy is paper tiger :bukkake:

[antrob]

Hey, Antrob... your repeated (and ******ed) shots at me via the message board would warrant a tad more consideration if you could master even the most basic elements of the English language.

So, until there's evidence you know the difference between your and you're - or you are, for that matter - you're (hint, hint... that's "you" and "are" combined) cordially invited to read someone else's stuff. Or to kiss my ass.

Whichever you'd prefer.

LOL! Somebody got "their" panties in a bunch. See I know some proper grammar. Quit blowing the IBO and quit being a biased writer and I wouldn't criticize you. I will ignore the other childish insult.