Surely Pacquiao is top 10/20 greatest fighters of all time

[Sam Donald]

i dont rank fighters by matching them up in fantasy fights and determing the outcome.. then placing them on the atg p4p list

looking at fighters accomplishments and resume, pacquiaos is up their with the very best

like him or not, ped user or not, the guy ranks as high as top 10/20 of all time. i wouldnt be surprised if people put him in their top 5 for accomplishments n resume..

i think fighters from the past, 1930s 40s etc, get to much butt licking...

from the history forum they talk about some guys who beat a guy who beat a guy but didnt do anything after the win blah blah blah and are impressed with guys who are have records like 88-35

guys from this decade and the last decade dont get enough respect compared to guys who people have never even seen footage of lol

pacquiao is the fighter of decade, and any fighter of the decade is up their with the very best.. same with the 90s like jones jr and whitaker ( who gets a lot of respect from historians actually )

[-EX-]

I don't think so but at the end of the day its all opinion...and RJJ stock has fallen some because of his losses...

[Sam Donald]

I don't think so but at the end of the day its all opinion...and RJJ stock has fallen some because of his losses...

the losses now, in my opinion, has no effect on jones' position of the list. in that case, sugar ray robinson shouldnt be number 1, 2 or number 3 because the amount of times he lost towards the end of this career

remember what fighters did at their best, in their prime.. the problem with boxing fans is that they forget about what fighters like jones and odlh did in their prime but only remember the end

[NesNY]

you kinda lost me at "ped user or not". the simple fact is he's never been caught or involved with steroids or PEDs.

In what would've been the biggest fight of his career at that point, when he fought Morales 1, he gave a blood sample 2 days before the Morales fight. Of course they had to have tested it for PED's, EPO, HGH, the works, right? Not a hint of cheating was ever found.

He believed giving blood weakened him, fine. He wasn't wearing his Reyes puncher gloves...fine.

What actually made him lose was a huge gash over his eye (from an accidental headbutt) which caused him to dial back his aggression and fight going backwards while avoiding shots. Thus, he lost. He simply couldn't box while backpedaling and lost that fight (he's a pressure fighter).

But from accomplishments alone, Manny surely has achieved greatness. The simple fact is nobody ever gave a thought of him fighting at Welterweight. Then he makes DLH quit, having never weighed-in over 140lbs.

Then he knocked out Ricky Hatton @ 140lbs...someone people thought was too heavy for him.
Then Miguel Cotto....and Manny took the puerto rican's shots as if he were a lightweight. Yeah they fought at 145, but Cotto said it wasn't too difficult to make the weight.

Cotto - "This is the best condition I have ever been. 100% I will be ready for this fight as I have been for all my fights. I feel stronger and faster at this weight,” Pacquiao told David Tyler of ****.com.

“When we took this fight, we decided that we were fine with 145. We knew we could do it and we knew we would be at our best the next night,” he told ****.com.

Again....many experts and historians thought Manny Pacquiao had no business fighting over 140lbs. He only rehydrated to about 146-148...which is a stark contrast to fighters who rehydrate almost 10-15 lbs for a fight.


Point is....Manny Pacquiao....as raw and one-handed as he was...beat guys he had no business even fighting.

Morales and Barrera were on a decline....but they were ELITE fighters. They're living legends. JMM was in his absolute prime and took Pac to school...and he arguably still won, citing a Judge's scoring error.


Anyone who discredits this man is a moron, plain and simple. Manny Pacquiao has achieved greatness. Top 10 or 20, I don't care where u put him, that's for people to argue. But he deserved his FOTD award, and he deserves at least an honorable mention among the top 20 ATG's.

[Sam Donald]

you kinda lost me at "ped user or not". the simple fact is he's never been caught or involved with steroids or PEDs.

In what would've been the biggest fight of his career at that point, when he fought Morales 1, he gave a blood sample 2 days before the Morales fight. Of course they had to have tested it for PED's, EPO, HGH, the works, right? Not a hint of cheating was ever found.

He believed giving blood weakened him, fine. He wasn't wearing his Reyes puncher gloves...fine.

What actually made him lose was a huge gash over his eye (from an accidental headbutt) which caused him to dial back his aggression and fight going backwards while avoiding shots. Thus, he lost. He simply couldn't box while backpedaling and lost that fight (he's a pressure fighter).

But from accomplishments alone, Manny surely has achieved greatness. The simple fact is nobody ever gave a thought of him fighting at Welterweight. Then he makes DLH quit, having never weighed-in over 140lbs.

Then he knocked out Ricky Hatton @ 140lbs...someone people thought was too heavy for him.
Then Miguel Cotto....and Manny took the puerto rican's shots as if he were a lightweight. Yeah they fought at 145, but Cotto said it wasn't too difficult to make the weight.

Cotto - "This is the best condition I have ever been. 100% I will be ready for this fight as I have been for all my fights. I feel stronger and faster at this weight,” Pacquiao told David Tyler of ****.com.

“When we took this fight, we decided that we were fine with 145. We knew we could do it and we knew we would be at our best the next night,” he told ****.com.

Again....many experts and historians thought Manny Pacquiao had no business fighting over 140lbs. He only rehydrated to about 146-148...which is a stark contrast to fighters who rehydrate almost 10-15 lbs for a fight.


Point is....Manny Pacquiao....as raw and one-handed as he was...beat guys he had no business even fighting.

Morales and Barrera were on a decline....but they were ELITE fighters. They're living legends. JMM was in his absolute prime and took Pac to school...and he arguably still won, citing a Judge's scoring error.


Anyone who discredits this man is a moron, plain and simple. Manny Pacquiao has achieved greatness. Top 10 or 20, I don't care where u put him, that's for people to argue. But he deserved his FOTD award, and he deserves at least an honorable mention for the top 20 ATG's.

meaning if he is taking something or not, who knows, hes still great

[Phil Ivey]

top 20 atm.

[hugh grant]

i dont rank fighters by matching them up in fantasy fights and determing the outcome.. then placing them on the atg p4p list

looking at fighters accomplishments and resume, pacquiaos is up their with the very best

like him or not, ped user or not, the guy ranks as high as top 10/20 of all time. i wouldnt be surprised if people put him in their top 5 for accomplishments n resume..

i think fighters from the past, 1930s 40s etc, get to much butt licking...

from the history forum they talk about some guys who beat a guy who beat a guy but didnt do anything after the win blah blah blah and are impressed with guys who are have records like 88-35

guys from this decade and the last decade dont get enough respect compared to guys who people have never even seen footage of lol

pacquiao is the fighter of decade, and any fighter of the decade is up their with the very best.. same with the 90s like jones jr and whitaker ( who gets a lot of respect from historians actually )

If Ali is top 5 then Pac is as well. I mean Ali was great and all, but the guy is considered the greatest ever fighter, and he didnt even DO BODY PUNCHING. So he wasnt a complete fighter or boxer or whatever you call it but is ranked solely on his resume and how supposedly great it is. And it is.
But things have to be put into perspective.

[J.Dempsey]

Pac id definately up there, of my time he is in the top ten even 5 easily, but of all time, I dunno. Ppl have their preferences to the time they were growing up and watchin boxing.

[Sam Donald]

If Ali is top 5 then Pac is as well. I mean Ali was great and all, but the guy is considered the greatest ever fighter, and he didnt even DO BODY PUNCHING. So he wasnt a complete fighter or boxer or whatever you call it but is ranked solely on his resume and how supposedly great it is. And it is.
But things have to be put into perspective.

Pacs up there for sure

[talip bin osman]

i dont know...

ranking fighters and coming up with a reputable list is a very daunting task...

watching highlights on youtube just wont cut it...

but then again.... thats just me...