If Americans wanted to box, the Klitschkos would be bums....

[BoxerDood]

its easy, can you imagine lamon brewster bashing up ali?

how about chris byrd beating the crap out of george foreman and making him quit?

or corrie sanders beating the **** out of evander holyfield and making him crawl around the ring on all fours like a DOG

Wlad has a bad chin, I will give you that.

But what about Vitali? He was kicking Byrd's ass, but he couldn't continue because of hand trauma. And the only other guy to beat him is Lennox Lewis, and he was giving him the fight of his life and even leading on the score cards before the stoppage. I highly doubt those guys would dominate Lennox Lewis, even at that point in his career. He was in much better shape for that fight than he was against Rahman the first time.

And since when are today's boxers as good as the ATGs? So even if Vitali can't beat guys like Ali, I doubt these "American HWs" would either. And again, he gave an ATG the fight of his life.

[shadeyfizzle]

Yes i agree. but when you look at the HW division, did the europeon fighter just simply beat and overmatch great american HW or did the HW division in the US severly weaken?

Its sad that the HW american savior was at 1 time a man 6'2, 260 pounds who didnt like to train and drank beer during training camp.

The Klitschkos are dominating because the US heavyweight division has severely weakened. Its not a reflection of your archetypical great american fighter vs your archetypical great european fighter.

But the Klistchkos were already contenders and champions before the decline of the american heavyweight. along with the likes of andrew golota.

[ShatteredGlass]

Wlad has a bad chin, I will give you that.

But what about Vitali? He was kicking Byrd's ass, but he couldn't continue because of hand trauma. And the only other guy to beat him is Lennox Lewis, and he was giving him the fight of his life and even leading on the score cards before the stoppage. I highly doubt those guys would dominate Lennox Lewis, even at that point in his career.

Lennox Lewis was an old fat man in that fight, and he had turned the tide and had Vitali ready to go, the doctor saved Vitali from being blinded and knocked into an invalid.

besides Lewis is not american, so who cares

[Calilloyd]

Just remember before that iron curtain went up European heavyweights were able to compete even with the greatest of american fighters.

That's one fighter, one fight.. Eastern Europeans in general were NOT dominating that Era. Or even competing in it at that weight. That's one fighter against how many Americans?

[ShatteredGlass]

That's one fighter, one fight.. Eastern Europeans were NOT dominating that Era.

and it was a fluke, schmelling was punished in the rematch, and besides he was german, not soviet

[Russian Crushin]

The Klitschkos are dominating because the US heavyweight division has severely weakened. Its not a reflection of your archetypical great american fighter vs your archetypical great european fighter.

But the Klistchkos were already contenders and champions before the decline of the american heavyweight. along with the likes of andrew golota.

Ok lets forget the Klits. Lets focus on the other euros HW. I mean they arent immpresive at all yet will beat probably every American

[BoxerDood]

Lennox Lewis was an old fat man in that fight, and he had turned the tide and had Vitali ready to go, the doctor saved Vitali from being blinded and knocked into an invalid.

besides Lewis is not american, so who cares

But he's an ATG, and he was in MUCH better shape for Vitali than he was for Rahman.

Besides, since when are today's fighters as good as ATGs? Even if Vitali would lose to Ali, Foreman, etc, so would these "American HWs" if they existed. Just like Sugar Ray Leonard would mop the floor with every WW today, or like Holyfield would destroy Steve Cunningham at CW, or like Robinson could probably take a crap on Sergio Martinez, Kelly Pavlik, etc. Or what about how Willie Pep would make Juanma and Gamboa look like Matthew Hatton.

[ShatteredGlass]

But he's an ATG, and he was in MUCH better shape for Vitali than he was for Rahman.

Besides, since when are today's fighters as good as ATGs? Even if Vitali would lose to Ali, Foreman, etc, so would these "American HWs" if they existed. Just like Sugar Ray Leonard would mop the floor with every WW today, or like Holyfield would destroy Steve Cunningham at CW, or like Robinson could probably take a crap on Sergio Martinez, Kelly Pavlik, etc.

No, Sugar Ray Leonard vs Floyd Mayweather would be an even fight at 147,

[Calilloyd]

I'm not even european. I'm simply saying there's no definitive way of comparing the europeans with the americans because the decline of american heavyweights in the past 20 years actually skews the data rather than confirming it.

European heavyweights have always been contenders in the olympics throughout history.

European fighters have been able to compete with the greatest of great american fighters before the iron curtain went up.

So we can never really know for sure whether or not the Ali or fraziers of days past would have been as good as they were had european heavyweights been able to compete professionally during their era.

I guess you missed Ali vs Mildenberg. In fact, Ali and otherAmerican fighters fought a number of European heavyweights. Russia doesnt represent all of Europe.

[shadeyfizzle]

That's one fighter, one fight.. Eastern Europeans in general were NOT dominating that Era. Or even competing in it at that weight. That's one fighter against how many Americans?

never did i say europeans were dominating any era. But since you bring it up it brings me back to my point that shortly after the rematch WW2 started and the rise of the berlin wall prevented any aspiring eastern bloc fighter from competing professionally. So we will never know if Europeans would have been able to compete with the greatest american heavyweights in boxing's golden age.