BERNABE CONCEPTION= Manny Pacquiao w/o Special Blended “Power Shakes”??

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  • Ryn0
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    #41
    Originally posted by Horus
    I am glad you came in this thread. I agree Conception does not share alot of things that makes Pacquiao what he is today.

    However, my overall point was Just rewatching the Juan Ma fight had me thinking of the old analogy that goes

    “It is always easy to teach Offense rather than Defense. Fundamentally, It requires less work, and the results are much faster."

    This is why Fighters improve so rapidly with Freddie Roach is such a short period of time.

    (JCC jr., Khan, Bernabe, and the list goes on)

    Because the focus is primarly on offense and not defense. And obviously these fighters want quick results, and they are paying Roach for instant results.

    However as we saw on Saturday night, The downfall of not having a Fundamental defensive foundation as a boxer is when you fight a fighter who’s offense can match your offense and who defense is good enough to survive your offense. You find yourself defenseless and helpless.

    IMO, BERNABE CONCEPTION did not do anything against Juan Ma that he hasn’t done before, and Juan Ma did not do anything that Conception hasn’t seen before. The problem for Conception was Juan Ma had more fundamentals to his arsenal than Bernabe, AND Juan Ma “TIMED” Bernabe perfectly. Bernabe punches came wide, Juan Ma punches were short.

    As I watch this fight I kept getting reminded of Pacquiao’s style and what gave him trouble. Morales,JMM, and Cotto Style when they boxed gave Pacquiao fits.

    WHY???

    Because their punches were short, straight, and perfectly timed. ALA, JUAN MA v.s CONCEPTION
    With that said, Share your thoughts.

    So once again,

    DO YOU THINK BERNABE PERFORMANCE ON SATURDAY AGAINST JUAN MA, PUT A SPOTLIGHT ON THE FLAWS OF PACQUIAO’S OFFENSE?
    Flaws in his offense? Like what give me and example. There is the most oblivious flaw in using any offense which is you can be hit if you are attempting to hit and opponent. Which Concepcion clearly showed when getting hit with the counter left hook.

    Now Pacquiao because he's primarily an offensive fighter has minimised the risk of getting hit whilist throwing his punches by using awkward angles footwork and simply covering his face with his hands if anything comes back, other than the footwork his actual defence isn't exception but it's the combination of attempting to avoid Pacquiao's punch from an odd angle whilst trying to hit him as he spins off after a shot. There are flaws such as him being off balance alot but he's able to throw hard punches while he's off balances. There are postives and negatives to everything he does just like with any fighters.

    I disagree with your assessment about Roach fighters, he does teach a great offensive game and while his defensive techniques may not be as effective as Mayweathers it's more than just offense. Look at Khan for instance, he's being hit alot less than he was before he was a Roach fighter, his long jab is a form of defense he throws it from far out and it stops people from getting inside on him. If anyone gets to close he simply sticks his long arms infront of his face and gets into a safe range again. His defense before Roach was much worse. There have been changes to his offensive game but in general Khan was a very good Offesive fighter he just didn't know how to incorporate defense it was one or the other until he came to Roach.

    You also can't chalk it all up to Roach some guys will never have the boxing brain to incorporate a great defense it just isn't going to happen. Most people just seem to ignore the slight tweaks to a defense and instead focus on the offensive changes because that's whats most noticable unless your a very defense focused guy with a great defensive eye catching style like Whittaker, Mayweather and the early Guzman years.

    Just look at Khan or Chavez Jr., Chavez Jr got hit a fair bit against Duddy but he took alot more punishment against a lesser fighter in Matt Vanda, Khan got tagged harder amnd more frequently against Prescott, Gomez and Limond than he did against Barrera, Kotelnik and Malignaggi but people don't focus on the smaller but equally important defensive tweaks and instead notice the flashier hard straight right hand or counter uppercut that Khan was using against Paulie.

    But in general if we aren't talking specifically about Roach fighters then yes offense generates more instant results but against the Elite instant results aren't what a fighter needs.

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    • any craic lad?
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      #42
      Originally posted by Eaner0919
      uh thats not true at all
      So have Roach and Bernabe split?

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      • Devils Advocate
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        #43
        Originally posted by Horus
        That the only difference in my opinion. just look at their styles.
        Both worked with Roach, both from the Philippines, Both used the same kind of foot work, and neither of get confuse for a defensive specialist.
        Bernabe looked like a replica of Pacquiao minus the skill, speed, and w/a goofy smile. He had me rolling the moment he came out with that hat on lol.

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        • jrosales13
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          #44
          Yes cuz I am pretty sure Pac would lose to Juanma at 126.

          And, I am pretty sure Bernabe could beat Barrera and fight competitive against JMM and Morales...

          You nothing but a fan boy my dude.

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          • mathed
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            #45
            Originally posted by IMDAZED
            Fair enough, mat. You really wanna know? Well I'm offering you two choices going forward: Take the blue pill and the story ends; you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe about Pacquiao and the shakes..or you can take the red pill and stay in wonderland, and I'll show you just how deep the rabbithole goes...But remember, mat...I didn't say it would be easy. I simply said it would be the truth.
            Good one, lol. I'm just seeing that now every other boxer out there is being rumored as using something illegal and what not. People can think what they want I won't lose any sleep over it anyways but it sounds lame to me to discredit people as cheaters with no proof...sounds like some type of jealousy thing when people start doing that but this is all my opinion anyway and won't change a thing.

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            • trainhard_187
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              #46
              Conception was just out classed.. END OF DISCUSSION..

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              • Danny Gunz
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                #47
                Similair styles, Bernabe's footwork looks like Manny's but Manny's is leagues better. Other then that there isnt many similairities.

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                • Eaner0919
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                  #48
                  Originally posted by any craic lad?
                  So have Roach and Bernabe split?
                  fired according to Steve Kim.

                  yep Freddie was fired. More on this tomorrow as there is something hugely wrong going on between Freddie and Koncz

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                  • Rico1965
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                    #49
                    So your trying to say because Pacquiao and Conception are from the Philippines and trained by Freddie Roach......Conception fights very similar to Pacquiao who gets TKO in the 2nd round by Lopez...so your using that to compare Pacquiao to Conception...really? Donaire's a Filipino so do all Filipino's fight the same?

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                    • 007geyweather
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                      #50
                      Originally posted by Horus
                      BERNABE CONCEPTION = Manny Pacquiao w/o Special Blended “Power Shakes”??

                      Ok guys I know hate will come by me making this comparison, but come on the similarities are there. Both worked with Roach, both from the Philippines, Both used the same kind of foot work, and neither of get confuse for a defensive specialist.

                      Just rewatching the Juan Ma fight had me thinking of the old analogy that goes
                      “It is always easy to teach Offense rather than Defense. Fundamentally, It requires less work, and the results are much faster."

                      This is why Fighters improve so rapidly with Freddie Roach is such a short period of time.
                      (JCC jr., Khan, Bernabe, and the list goes on)

                      Because the focus is primarly on offense and not defense. And obviously these fighters want quick results, and they are paying Roach for instant results.

                      However as we saw on Saturday night, The downfall of not having a Fundamental defensive foundation as a boxer is when you fight a fighter who’s offense can match your offense and who defense is good enough to survive your offense. You find yourself defenseless and helpless.

                      IMO, BERNABE CONCEPTION did not do anything against Juan Ma that he hasn’t done before, and Juan Ma did not do anything that Conception hasn’t seen before. The problem for Conception was Juan Ma had more fundamentals to his arsenal than Bernabe, AND Juan Ma “TIMED” Bernabe perfectly. Bernabe punches came wide, Juan Ma punches were short.

                      As I watch this fight I kept getting reminded of Pacquiao’s style and what gave him trouble. Morales,JMM, and Cotto Style when they boxed gave Pacquiao fits. WHY???
                      Because their punches were short, straight, and perfectly timed. ALA, JUAN MA v.s CONCEPTION
                      With that said, Share your thoughts.

                      DO YOU GUYS THINK BERNABE PERFORMANCE ON SATURDAY AGAINST JUAN MA, PUT A SPOTLIGHT ON THE FLAWS OF PACQUIAO’S OFFENSE?


                      :
                      Really, you wrote this much just to prove your ******ity. I didnt even read but you are a CERTIFIED ***!

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