Admit It, Wlad Klitschko is better than Prime Tyson...

[T.Horton]

No dreaming necessary, I backed it up with solid stats as to why I think Wlad would win. Wlad is too tall, strong, and skilled for any version of Tyson. If Buster could do it, Wlad would certainly do it. Now watch you come back with, oh, "his trainer died", "he wasn't his best that night"... bull****. In that case, all of Wlad's losses don't count because he wasn't his best on those nights either, and noone even touches a focused Wlad (except Vitaly ofcourse).

Have you ever boxed?

[Benny Leonard]

No dreaming necessary, I backed it up with solid stats as to why I think Wlad would win. Wlad is too tall, strong, and skilled for any version of Tyson. If Buster could do it, Wlad would certainly do it. Now watch you come back with, oh, "his trainer died", "he wasn't his best that night"... bull****. In that case, all of Wlad's losses don't count because he wasn't his best on those nights either, and noone even touches a focused Wlad (except Vitaly ofcourse).

His trainer was Rooney. Rooney honed the skills of Tyson. Same drills that D'Amato had Tyson do, Rooney had Tyson to continue to do. Once Tyson left Rooney, his training went to ****. He even stopped using the famous D'Amato drills that kept his speed up, his combinations working, accuracy to be pin-point in "vital spots," head-movement, etc. Rooney had him sparring 5x a week. Made sure he did his road-work. And so on. Even came up with the fight plan for Tyson...which he also made sure Tyson followed during the fight. Not just in the corner would Rooney instruct him but he would also call out numbers/commands during the actual fight which you can hear during his fights. Tyson himself said he would listen for those commands.

That "midget" was landing jabs on 6'5+ Tony Tucker and every fighter he fought despite being always smaller height wise than his opponent. Tucker, Green, and Smith, went the distance and all lost by UD...because they stopped fighting to win. Tyson needs opening to win. And for you to win, you need to throw back which will thus put you in danger to be hit as well.
Biggs got worn down and taken out because he tried to win. And he was also a "tall" fighter. 6'5 I think.

Tyson used his size to his advantage.

Talk about D'amato dying only works as far as Tyson's motivation to continue to fight to unify the titles which was the promise he kept to D'Amato. After he unified the titles, against Spinks (since Spinks was still considered part of the Championship), what did he do?
He talked about retirement right after that fight because he was fed up. Instead of retiring, he he fired his entire team. Management that made sure he was kept active to keep in shape and motivated. And of course his trainer, Kevin Rooney. Rooney is brought up specifically because he knew the D'Amato system. It wasn't a perfect relationship but it proved better than what came after.

Tyson basically said himself that once he started making his own decisions, using his own free-will, that his career went down-hill. He made poor choices. That's actually something that should be a huge knock on his legacy.


He went with King who kept him inactive compared to what Cayton had him doing and of course, Tyson was freer to do what he wanted. And he stopped taking his training/career seriously.

That's why it matters.

It's why I've always brought up a simple question to determine the difference between the two versions: "Would ANY VERSION of Tyson Post-Spinks/Post-Rooney, have defeated Tyson while he was training with Rooney from Berbick to Spinks?



As far as Wlad, the reason why it doesn't work for Wlad, or at least why I've always considered him better than Tyson in that field of "choices," is that Wlad always keeps in shape and takes his career seriously like a Pro should. Just like Marciano did. Just like Floyd does.
He doesn't let his body get out of shape and they all prepared to be at their best for the fight.
Wlad also, at least I think so, didn't become a drug addict like Tyson did. Didn't live it up on the party scene. Wlad is more disciplined.
Now if it comes out that Wlad battles drug problems and doesn't train his hardest, doesn't prepare...yeah, I'll let you use it.
I just thought Wlad was better than that.

Buster wasn't the only one that was getting the better of Tyson. Berbick, same man that Tyson destroyed for the title was tagging Tyson up in sparring. Tyson wasn't mentally fit to fight. Physically, it can be brought up where his conditioning was and how he was fat just weeks before the fight and he needed to crash-diet to make weight....but more importantly, it was always about the mental/emotional side of Tyson, like any fighter, that is the bigger issue. You can even be in good physical condition, but without the mental side of you being in great shape, being prepared to fight, you are lost.

Tyson also noted that he was basically burnt out by the second fight with Ruddock. It was interesting because it was something I quoted George Foreman on with how he saw that second fight with him basically saying Tyson was gone as a fighter.




Tyson vs. Douglas...the thread I made with some tid-bits

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397438

[Hitman932]

His trainer was Rooney. Rooney honed the skills of Tyson. Same drills that D'Amato had Tyson do, Rooney had Tyson to continue to do. Once Tyson left Rooney, his training went to ****. He even stopped using the famous D'Amato drills that kept his speed up, his combinations working, accuracy to be pin-point in "vital spots," head-movement, etc. Rooney had him sparring 5x a week. Made sure he did his road-work. And so on. Even came up with the fight plan for Tyson...which he also made sure Tyson followed during the fight. Not just in the corner would Rooney instruct him but he would also call out numbers/commands during the actual fight which you can hear during his fights. Tyson himself said he would listen for those commands.

That "midget" was landing jabs on 6'5+ Tony Tucker and every fighter he fought despite being always smaller height wise than his opponent. Tucker, Green, and Smith, went the distance and all lost by UD...because they stopped fighting to win. Tyson needs opening to win. And for you to win, you need to throw back which will thus put you in danger to be hit as well.
Biggs got worn down and taken out because he tried to win. And he was also a "tall" fighter. 6'5 I think.

Tyson used his size to his advantage.

Talk about D'amato dying only works as far as Tyson's motivation to continue to fight to unify the titles which was the promise he kept to D'Amato. After he unified the titles, against Spinks (since Spinks was still considered part of the Championship), what did he do?
He talked about retirement right after that fight because he was fed up. Instead of retiring, he he fired his entire team. Management that made sure he was kept active to keep in shape and motivated. And of course his trainer, Kevin Rooney. Rooney is brought up specifically because he knew the D'Amato system. It wasn't a perfect relationship but it proved better than what came after.

Tyson basically said himself that once he started making his own decisions, using his own free-will, that his career went down-hill. He made poor choices. That's actually something that should be a huge knock on his legacy.


He went with King who kept him inactive compared to what Cayton had him doing and of course, Tyson was freer to do what he wanted. And he stopped taking his training/career seriously.

That's why it matters.

It's why I've always brought up a simple question to determine the difference between the two versions: "Would ANY VERSION of Tyson Post-Spinks/Post-Rooney, have defeated Tyson while he was training with Rooney from Berbick to Spinks?



As far as Wlad, the reason why it doesn't work for Wlad, or at least why I've always considered him better than Tyson in that field of "choices," is that Wlad always keeps in shape and takes his career seriously like a Pro should. Just like Marciano did. Just like Floyd does.
He doesn't let his body get out of shape and they all prepared to be at their best for the fight.
Wlad also, at least I think so, didn't become a drug addict like Tyson did. Didn't live it up on the party scene. Wlad is more disciplined.
Now if it comes out that Wlad battles drug problems and doesn't train his hardest, doesn't prepare...yeah, I'll let you use it.
I just thought Wlad was better than that.

Buster wasn't the only one that was getting the better of Tyson. Berbick, same man that Tyson destroyed for the title was tagging Tyson up in sparring. Tyson wasn't mentally fit to fight. Physically, it can be brought up where his conditioning was and how he was fat just weeks before the fight and he needed to crash-diet to make weight....but more importantly, it was always about the mental/emotional side of Tyson, like any fighter, that is the bigger issue. You can even be in good physical condition, but without the mental side of you being in great shape, being prepared to fight, you are lost.

Tyson also noted that he was basically burnt out by the second fight with Ruddock. It was interesting because it was something I quoted George Foreman on with how he saw that second fight with him basically saying Tyson was gone as a fighter.




Tyson vs. Douglas...the thread I made with some tid-bits

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=397438

Great post as usual Benny. Good to hear from ya, how you been?

[Benny Leonard]

Great post as usual Benny. Good to hear from ya, how you been?

Busy. Career, Girlfriend, Traveling...

Might be going on anther long break again though in about a couple of months. Not quite sure when or if I'll be back on.

Technology helps but I'm out of the loop a bit on here. Change is a good thing though. The World is big.


How have you been?

[GRANDSLAM]

Its an interesting question and they're more similar than you'd think. Tyson is overrated, he had great power and an iron chin but couldn't beat anyone who wasn't scared of him. Also he never beat a great champion, well he beat Larry but he was flabby as **** by then. Wlad is similar, he's never beat a great champion, he's never beat anyone who wasn't scared and has great power but no chin.

Prime for Prime- Tyson stops hims early

[Hitman932]

Busy. Career, Girlfriend, Traveling...

Might be going on anther long break again though in about a couple of months. Not quite sure when or if I'll be back on.

Technology helps but I'm out of the loop a bit on here. Change is a good thing though. The World is big.


How have you been?

I've been unbusy. Got laid off last year, doing some traveling myself and just waiting for school to start back up. Nothing too crazy.

I wish I could stay away from the site for a couple months. It's never anything but bad news in the boxing world these days.

[WladIsTheChamp]

Have you ever boxed?

Not in the amateurs or pros, but I doubt that even 5% of the posters on here have. I have sparred, still hit the heavy bag, have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. What does that have to do with anything? I can talk about a sport and not have done it on a competitive level. This is boxing blog spot, not the gym.

[WladIsTheChamp]

Wlad cannot fight on his back foot. Tyson would have come, quite literally in my opinion, ruined his career. Mike would have broke that body down and that would have been it for Wlad and it would have been a lot easier than people are trying to make it seem.

He doesn't need to fight off the back foot because he is the one attacking most of the time - best defense is a good offense. When an opponent does weather the storm and comes in, he clinches. Tyson would never survive trying to come in. If he did come in, Wlad would just clinch an tire him out. Mike would get frustrated and then get KOd or quit/get DQd.

[Benny Leonard]

I've been unbusy. Got laid off last year, doing some traveling myself and just waiting for school to start back up. Nothing too crazy.

I wish I could stay away from the site for a couple months. It's never anything but bad news in the boxing world these days.

You and a lot of other people.
Economy world-wide is in bad condition. If you can find some entrepreneur work, do it. In the end, know what you want, work hard in something you want to do, and have patience. I failed to do this for a while. Unmotivated to Motivated.

Traveling is always good as well as furthering your education if it is inside an "institution" or on your own...especially on your own. Mind-set is especially important.

Try to ease up from the site. Posters on this site more so than the news will wear you out if you let it. But in the end, you'll learn to have fun and laugh at things on this site as well as in life...and never get caught up in it all. It should be for your entertainment. Shouldn't be stressful.
Stay freer than the system if you can. Un-plugging can be a good thing.

Keeping busy with things I wanted to do kept me away from most of the b.s.
Of course it can be hard when your options are less. Goal is to enable yourself to have more options.
That's why my focus has been elsewhere and will be going back on another path soon to continue on. Tough, but it's better than the alternative...especially compared to how some others have it with very little options.


One of the great things about boxing, studying its history, and even with the topic of discussion with my post with regards to Tyson...it will teach you that you must have good work ethic, stay focused, motivated, disciplined, be patient, and keep preparing even in bad times because you have to take advantage of any opportunities that come your way.
You fail to do this and you will get knocked out.
It starts from the Top, your Mind-set. Nothing is easy but you can make it easier when the time comes with the above.

[WladIsTheChamp]

Its an interesting question and they're more similar than you'd think. Tyson is overrated, he had great power and an iron chin but couldn't beat anyone who wasn't scared of him. Also he never beat a great champion, well he beat Larry but he was flabby as **** by then. Wlad is similar, he's never beat a great champion, he's never beat anyone who wasn't scared and has great power but no chin.

Prime for Prime- Tyson stops hims early

That's bull**** because almost no opponent of Wlad's acts scared before the fight, they get scared after they get hit a couple of times. Almost every single one of Wlad's opponents talks **** to him or about him, before the fight that is. Hell Austin was talking a lot trash, look what happened.

In case of Tyson, yeah, that's true, if they weren't intimidated, he gave up.


Also Wlad came back in a major way after his setbacks and became king of the HWs. Tyson ruled very briefly and never recovered. That is the ultimate test, Wlad is mentally stronger than Tyson and that's the reason he would have beat him (plus the size and skill ofcourse).