Admit It, Wlad Klitschko is better than Prime Tyson...

[BoxingTech718]

Agree/Disagree?


ps: I think Wlad would have KO'd a prime Tyson. He's too powerful and has a huge reach...

Another racist redneck ufc fan. Go to the sherdog forums bum.

[rizkybizness]

who's mike tyson?

[WladIsTheChamp]

I feel this article sums up the myth that is Iron Mike Tyson


By Frank Scoblete
30 January 2000

Now that Mike Tyson's career is almost over, it might be of interest to take a cold hard look at just how good he was at his best to get some idea of where he stands in the rankings of the great heavyweight champions.

It is not a stretch to say that much of the fearsome Tyson persona of a decade or more ago was media hype and was little related to what he actually accomplished in the ring or against whom he accomplished it.

We can make a case that Tyson fought "never-wases" and "nothing-lefters" in his early career culminating with his knockout over an intimidated former light-heavyweight champion Michael Spinks, whose only real claim to fame was "winning" two controversial decisions against an aging and distracted Larry Holmes.

Other than the light-hitting, terrified Spinks and the out-of-shape, intimidated, comebacking, former great Larry Holmes, who did Tyson actually fight in his pre-prison days who was truly any good in absolute terms? If we measure competition based on who Ali faced, then who of all Tyson's pre-prison opponents was as good as Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Ernie Shavers, Joe Bugner, Mac Foster, Floyd Patterson, Zora Foley, Cleveland Williams, Jimmy Ellis, Bob Foster or Ernie Terrell, not to mention the awesome likes of all-time greats Sonny Liston, George Foreman or Smokin' Joe Frazier? Would you classify Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker, Trevor Berbick or Frank Bruno with any those other fighters? Only if you never saw them fight!

The only real fight the pre-prison Tyson ever had was against the only decent heavyweight fighter he fought, a determined, well-conditioned Buster Douglas -- and Tyson was roundly beaten, battered and knocked out! That was Tyson in his prime, against a fighter who went on to "extinguish" himself by being knocked out in three rounds by Evander Holyfield.

If the pre-prison Tyson's boxing worth must be looked at with some skepticism, then the post-prison Tyson must be looked upon with scorn. Often in boxing, the true greatness of a fighter is not actually known when he is in his prime as he defeats opponent after opponent rather convincingly. It is only after he ages, slows down, and gets himself into wars are we aware of just how good the fighter is -- and was!

Certainly that was true of Ali. Before he made his comeback from an almost four-year forced layoff, there were all sorts of questions about his ability. Could he take a punch? Had he been beating up washed-up fighters? Did he have courage? Would he dog it if he were ever in a real fight? The layoff slowed Ali down, made him more vulnerable. What's more, great fighters appeared in that time, fighters better than any he had previously fought!

So a somewhat diminished Ali met each and every challenger -- starting with a comeback fight against highly ranked Jerry Quarry and then a second fight against vicious number-one contender Oscar Bonavena. His first career loss to Joe Frazier in his third comeback fight proved he could take a punch and that he had mountains of courage. That fight was the first of several "wars" Ali would fight in this second part of his career.

His next loss was to Ken Norton. Fighting 11 rounds with a broken jaw, Ali merely proved again that he was as courageous as any fighter who ever lived. His great victories against these very same fighters and his upset win over the god-like Foreman, showed what a great fighter he was -- and how much greater he had been before his layoff!

Not so with Tyson. His "layoff" was heralded with a return to the ring against a rank amateur, Peter McNeeley, whom Tyson "destroyed" with a wild flurry in round one. This same McNeeley was later knocked out by the bloated Butterbean in one round and has since lost just about every real fight he's had! And what of Buster Mathis, Jr., Bruce "I was knocked out by a gust of air" Seldon, Francois Botha, or Julian Francis? Are they credible opponents? Only if elephants can fly.

The only real fight the post-prison Tyson had of any significance was against Evander Holyfield, who was selected because he appeared to be a shot fighter, having lost two out of three to the disappointing Rid**** Bowe. Had Tyson known that Holyfield was not a shot fighter, but actually the only great heavyweight of the 1990s, I'm sure he would have selected a different fighter to beat, perhaps a third go-round with the overrated Razor Ruddock who proved himself a worthy Tyson contender by being knocked out in one round by the otherwise cautious Lennox Lewis.

So here we have a very simple yardstick for measuring the greatness of Mike Tyson. He fought two hard fights, one pre-prison and one post-prison -- both of which he lost (subsequently, he ate his way to a third loss and fouled himself into a no-decision). The rest of his victories, pre-prison and post-prison, were over fighters who couldn't make the "C" list during Ali's tenure. So where does that put him on the list of all-time greats?

It doesn't. He doesn't belong. He's not even in the top 20!

If you think of the very few good heavyweight fighters who have plied their trade in the late 1980s and 1990s, it is a short list: Evander Holyfield, George Foreman (oh, yes, the Big George who fought Holyfield would have rocked Iron Mike just as he did Smokin' Joe), Rid**** Bowe, and maybe Lennox Lewis and Michael Moorer. Tyson only fought one of them, and lost. The others he avoided.

I do not, as some writers do, lament the fact that Mike Tyson never lived up to his potential. In fact, I believe he did live up to it, fully, completely. His potential just wasn't all that great and that's what he became -- not all that great.

Daaammmm son, that was a nice piece work.

[WladIsTheChamp]

Wlad knocks out Tyson. Tyson will never get past that jab and if he does come in bobbing and weaving, Wlad will put that left hook we saw against Edie Chambers and Ray Austin to use, or that right cross we saw against Brock. Wlad's jab alone would knock Tyson down, he doesn't have the reach to get to Wlad's supposedly weak chin.

Here are the hard facts as to why Wlad would beat Tyson down with his jab:

Tyson was a short midget compared to all the guys that beat Wlad. Tyson is 5'10" with a 71" reach. Lamont Brewster 6'2" 77" reach. Corrie Sanders 6'4" 77" reach. Ross Purity 6'3" 80" reach. Tyson always had trouble with taller fighters: Buster Douglas in his prime, then got beaten down by Lewis, then quit against Kevin McBride. Conclusion, Wlad owns Tyson.

[shade darkar]

Wlad knocks out Tyson. Tyson will never get past that jab and if he does come in bobbing and weaving, Wlad will put that left hook we saw against Edie Chambers and Ray Austin to use, or that right cross we saw against Brock. Wlad's jab alone would knock Tyson down, he doesn't have the reach to get to Wlad's supposedly weak chin.

Here are the hard facts as to why Wlad would beat Tyson down with his jab:

Tyson was a short midget compared to all the guys that beat Wlad. Tyson is 5'10" with a 71" reach. Lamont Brewster 6'2" 77" reach. Corrie Sanders 6'4" 77" reach. Ross Purity 6'3" 80" reach. Tyson always had trouble with taller fighters: Buster Douglas in his prime, then got beaten down by Lewis, then quit against Kevin McBride. Conclusion, Wlad owns Tyson.

lol. i didnt expect anything else from somebody named "wladisthechamp"

i suppose you are allowed to dream.

[Boxingwizard]

Wladimir is obviously more consistent and has a more dominant career, but in a H2H match Tyson knocks out Wladimir.

[ForemanGrill]

At his best, I think Tyson would have knocked Wlad out by round five. His defensive skills would have been sufficient for getting passed the jab and setting up that devastating right hook and uppercut combination that he liked to knock people out with.

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that Tyson started to deteriorate after Cus died, but that's not the case. Cus died pretty early in his career. It was firing Kevin Rooney that caused his skills to disintegrate into what we saw against Buster Douglas. Between that and his personal life turning into ****, it's no wonder his career went downhill so quickly.

Now, if you had a prime Tyson against a prime Vitali, you'd have quite a fight on your hands. I think Vitali could beat Tyson. Wlad definitely couldn't.

[Frighteous]

If Wlad gets dinged good early, it's over.

[WladIsTheChamp]

lol. i didnt expect anything else from somebody named "wladisthechamp"

i suppose you are allowed to dream.

No dreaming necessary, I backed it up with solid stats as to why I think Wlad would win. Wlad is too tall, strong, and skilled for any version of Tyson. If Buster could do it, Wlad would certainly do it. Now watch you come back with, oh, "his trainer died", "he wasn't his best that night"... bull****. In that case, all of Wlad's losses don't count because he wasn't his best on those nights either, and noone even touches a focused Wlad (except Vitaly ofcourse).

[T.Horton]

Tyson had better footwork, better hand speed, better head movement, better combinations, better body punches. Wlad has a better jab and maybe better power when he is willing to actualy let his right hand go and maybe better defence but that is more because he uses his height so well, I wouldnt pick Wlad over Tyson i could very well imagine that Tyson would have psyched Wlad out and win the fight before it started. Vitali is a different matter.

Wlad cannot fight on his back foot. Tyson would have come, quite literally in my opinion, ruined his career. Mike would have broke that body down and that would have been it for Wlad and it would have been a lot easier than people are trying to make it seem.