Is Ali a bit overrated ?

[Calilloyd]

Since a fight is scored round by round, I don't think one can say Young shouldn't have won that fight because he voluntarily put half his body out of the ring in 2 rounds out of 15. That was an ugly tactic to get himself out of trouble, but he won more rounds than Ali nevertheless.

What is a prime Ali to you ? The one pre-forced retirement ?

The one that could use his legs for 15 rounds, taking very little punishment....

[Scott9945]

Young and Norton were robbed late in Ali's career. I'd still put him first on an all time great heavyweight list though.

[Tiozzo]

The one that could use his legs for 15 rounds, taking very little punishment....

That's the one

[Tiozzo]

if Ali never has to give up the title, he would probably be regarded as the greatest fighter ever with no one even remotely close. I give Frazier no shot whatsoever against a prime Ali.

But that prime Ali fought lesser opposition than the post-forced retirement Ali

[eveningmass79]

He was an incredible fighter whose personality and antics (inside and) outside the ring took his fame to another level. What irks me is that he is the boxing equivalent of The Beatles: if you ask someone who doesn't really know much about music who the best band of all time was, they always say "The Beatles" - completely disregarding the fact that their alleged best albums (Revolver, Sgt. Pepper) both had several very weak tracks on them.

It's the same with Ali: he's a safe answer for non-boxing fans to throw out there.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy. An awesome fighter. But he had his share of lucky breaks and opponents he struggled with just like any other fighter.

He was not super-human, he was just a very good fighter.

People too often get carried away by hyperbole when it comes to assessing him.

[AddiX]

What most fans today fail to understand is that once Ali started fighting on a high level he only fought the best out there. They were all top 10 fighters and champions. I don't think there is many fighters in the history of boxing who can say they fought everyone and beat most of them.

I even saw a poster in the history section who knew much more than me write a long statistical write up about it. I was very impressed and will never question Ali as the Greatest again.

[check hook]

What is Ali's true record ?

The Greatest's official record is 56 (KO 37) - 5 (KO 1). After his comeback, most people agree to say Ali was never the same again. However, that somewhat diminished fighter that he became was still kicking most butts that were put in front of him.

But as many other great fighters that came before and after him, I think judges may have given him gifts quite a couple of times, some of which I know, and some of which that maybe I don't know of.

I'm particularly thinking about Young, who Ali fought in 1976. Ali came into the fight weighing 230 lbs, the heaviest he had ever been. His poor conditionning showed up immediately, as he barely threw punches in the first 3 rounds, just taunting Young and getting punched, fighting flat footed, with his hands raised like Foreman. It is needless to say that was not typical of him. Norton, who was watching the fight from ringside, didn't want to tell how he scored it, because he wished Ali would win for a third showdown with him to happen ($).

His wish was granted. Ali got away with what I would dare to call a pure robbery. I scored it 9 rounds to 6 for Young. It could have been 8 rounds to 7for Young in the worst case.

Young : 1-2-3-8-9-10-14-15
Ali : 4-5-6-7-12-13

So that is one gift decision Ali had that I know of. But what about the 2 wins over Norton ? A lot of people say Norton beat Ali 3 times. I don't know, as I have only watched the first of their 3 showdowns, the one and only bout that was awarded to Norton (a SD that should have been a UD). Since I do know Ali has had many poor showings and performances (like the Bonavena fight), I wonder if he ever had any more gifts. I recall that Shavers may have beaten him, but I don't recall what was my scorecard exactly. But I remember I thought Shavers should have won the fight.

So his record could (or should ?) be 52 (ko 37) - 9 (ko 1), a record that starts resembling to the one of Holyfield. Just like Holyfield, Ali fought the best opposition out there, but his inconsistency and gift decisions cannot be overlooked. Is Ali a bit overrated ? Have people bought too much in his auto-proclamation as ''the Greatest'' ? To what point his many very sloppy performances and gift decisions should play against him when we rank him, some of which occuring when he was not shot ?

Do you think Ali's record should be different ? Worse ? Do you know of other gift decisions he's been given ? Does Ali deserve to be considered the Greatest heavyweight of all-time, ahead of men like Louis who maybe had 1 gift (Walcott I) in their whole careers, and only 1, 2 or 3 losses while facing the best opposition available, like Lewis and Jeffries ?

i would say yes.....but only a little bit.....alot of people feel that he lost all 3 bouts with Norton, he also lost fight 1 to Smokin Joe..... comparitively Foreman crushed Frazier and Norton. If they foguht 3 times i would think Foreman would have won 2 of 3......i have Foreman and Ali rated almost equally in my ATG rankings.......

ppl wax lyrical about Ali being the greatest........ask any man on the street they will say Ali.....they prob never seen him fight or know anything about the sport......he is excellent no doubt.....but i think over rated a little bit......he didn't go to the body........

[check hook]

What most fans today fail to understand is that once Ali started fighting on a high level he only fought the best out there. They were all top 10 fighters and champions. I don't think there is many fighters in the history of boxing who can say they fought everyone and beat most of them.

I even saw a poster in the history section who knew much more than me write a long statistical write up about it. I was very impressed and will never question Ali as the Greatest again.

SRR > Ali ???

[Scott9945]

What most fans today fail to understand is that once Ali started fighting on a high level he only fought the best out there. They were all top 10 fighters and champions. I don't think there is many fighters in the history of boxing who can say they fought everyone and beat most of them.

I even saw a poster in the history section who knew much more than me write a long statistical write up about it. I was very impressed and will never question Ali as the Greatest again.

Ali defended against some pretty crappy fighters (Dunn, Coopmans, Etc.). What made it acceptable is that he fought everyone and he fought often.

[freakzilladark]

Ali is good but he is a bit overrated.