Comments Thread For: Weekend Thoughts: Klitschko and What Could Have Been

[TheMagicMan]

Calzaghe beat Jones, Jones beat Ruiz, Ruiz beat Holyfield, Holyfied beat Tyson, Tyson beat Holmes, Holmes beat Ali. Therefore Calzaghe should be considered much better than Ali, in fact a prime Calzaghe I think KO's Ali just like 185 lbs Henry Cooper did when Ali and dundee cheated with illegal substances and tactics. Calzaghe might be the best fighter of all time, its open to opinion. All I know is I never saw Joe get beat, never saw him quit, never even saw his face messed up.

As for Vitali, hes great, you cant argue it, but because of the Lewis fight there are two sides to his historical worth. There are some who look at the Lewis fight as a fight Vitali was winning, even though taking it on 10 days notice and that a fluke cut cost him a sure victory. What happened after was Lewis retired out of fear and cowardice and since then Vitali has dominated. Or you see it as Vitali got beat by a fat Lewis and that the stoppage was completely appropriate since Lewis had messed Vitali up bad. Since then he has beat a ton of tomato cans...Both arguments have points, but again, all the controversy comes from that Lewis fight.

[ChopperRead]

I think it's the fact that both K-bros hardly lose a round as they beat people up that makes them distinctive and considered great. It's not really the opposition - which of course isn't their fault - it's the absolute domination. On a championship level we're often used to fights being competative for a few rounds before the better fighter pulls away, but with the Klitschkos we see them winning almost every second of the fight. Granted Vitali can't quite bring that anymore, but in principle he still is.

The catch is that we see them do it for longer stretches at a time because they generally aren't 1 punch KO artists (although Wlad certainly could be if he wanted to). If Foreman was that much better than an opponent he'd try to knock him out in a couple rounds and likely succeed. Wlad and Vitali take their time and make it a methodical beating. Still, that they are that much better than EVERY opponent in recent years, is pretty scary to think about. They're so far above their opposition that for their fans it's hard not to look at them without rose-colored glasses.

I guess the way I look at it is that while their resumes aren't quite ATG (through no fault of their own), the way they win gives them a decent status boost to replace it. It becomes a matter of whether you care about resume more or how they handle themselves in the ring, I don't think either way is right or wrong.

Nice objective viewpoint -- what are you doing here, LOL?

The Klitschkos have dominated the last decade of HW boxing. Their opponents are often made to look worse than they actually are, which is why the brothers are victims of their own success.

I would quibble a bit with your point about Vitali: he still barely loses a round. He's become older as we all do and a more cagey fighter, but still deadly.

[NECK SNAPPER]

vitali is a very strong heavy weight sticks to game plan
if they didnt stop the lennox lewis fight he may have been
ruined he was big enough to stay in there but a few more
rounds and he would have suffered permanent damage but he is the
best heavy weight of the day for sure

[Tiozzo]

I think it's the fact that both K-bros hardly lose a round as they beat people up that makes them distinctive and considered great. It's not really the opposition - which of course isn't their fault - it's the absolute domination. On a championship level we're often used to fights being competative for a few rounds before the better fighter pulls away, but with the Klitschkos we see them winning almost every second of the fight. Granted Vitali can't quite bring that anymore, but in principle he still is.

The catch is that we see them do it for longer stretches at a time because they generally aren't 1 punch KO artists (although Wlad certainly could be if he wanted to). If Foreman was that much better than an opponent he'd try to knock him out in a couple rounds and likely succeed. Wlad and Vitali take their time and make it a methodical beating. Still, that they are that much better than EVERY opponent in recent years, is pretty scary to think about. They're so far above their opposition that for their fans it's hard not to look at them without rose-colored glasses.

I guess the way I look at it is that while their resumes aren't quite ATG (through no fault of their own), the way they win gives them a decent status boost to replace it. It becomes a matter of whether you care about resume more or how they handle themselves in the ring, I don't think either way is right or wrong.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tiozzo]

Calzaghe beat Jones, Jones beat Ruiz, Ruiz beat Holyfield, Holyfied beat Tyson, Tyson beat Holmes, Holmes beat Ali. Therefore Calzaghe should be considered much better than Ali, in fact a prime Calzaghe I think KO's Ali just like 185 lbs Henry Cooper did when Ali and dundee cheated with illegal substances and tactics. Calzaghe might be the best fighter of all time, its open to opinion. All I know is I never saw Joe get beat, never saw him quit, never even saw his face messed up.

As for Vitali, hes great, you cant argue it, but because of the Lewis fight there are two sides to his historical worth. There are some who look at the Lewis fight as a fight Vitali was winning, even though taking it on 10 days notice and that a fluke cut cost him a sure victory. What happened after was Lewis retired out of fear and cowardice and since then Vitali has dominated. Or you see it as Vitali got beat by a fat Lewis and that the stoppage was completely appropriate since Lewis had messed Vitali up bad. Since then he has beat a ton of tomato cans...Both arguments have points, but again, all the controversy comes from that Lewis fight.

That's basically what I said in a prior post... There are 2 sides to a medal.

[ChopperRead]

That's basically what I said in a prior post... There are 2 sides to a medal.

That's true: for instance, Lennox Lewis was knocked cold by not one, but two journeymen: Hasim Rahman and Oliver "Crackhead" McCall." He later avenged both losses. But you can concentrate on the fact that Lewis was KO'd by these two less than superstar types in the first place, or the fact that he was able to come back and beat them. If you dwell on the first point, you come away thinking a bit less of Lewis.

[Tiozzo]

That's true: for instance, Lennox Lewis was knocked cold by not one, but two journeymen: Hasim Rahman and Oliver "Crackhead" McCall." He later avenged both losses. But you can concentrate on the fact that Lewis was KO'd by these two less than superstar types in the first place, or the fact that he was able to come back and beat them. If you dwell on the first point, you come away thinking a bit less of Lewis.

Vitali, just like Lewis, lost 2 fights.

And you're stuck with that first and only point, cause he didn't avenge either one. One made him look like a quitter, the second made him look like raw meat.

And you're stuck with those 2 images, because he didn't avenge either one.

[dvb]

sure they are dominant,but sure are they boring safety first people robbing fans of entertainment.

they got the power to ko half the bums they fight as soon as they man up and go for it,and i think they should look for harder challenges too before haye even
came on the scene.

if they beat hollyfield and toney ile give them full credit. sure both guys mentioned are older,but more skilled than any prospects or ranked contenders.

if not fight each other after haye and or valuev

[ChopperRead]

Vitali, just like Lewis, lost 2 fights.

And you're stuck with that first and only point, cause he didn't avenge either one. One made him look like a quitter, the second made him look like raw meat.

And you're stuck with those 2 images, because he didn't avenge either one.

After Wlad destroyed Byrd I don't think there was much call for Vitali to do the same thing. But no, he didn't avenge that one, even though he was winning the fight as usual when injured.

And Lewis retired rather than face Vitali again, so you are full of **** on that one, buddy -- you can't "avenge" something if you aren't given the opportunity. Lewis held on to the belt for a year and when Vitali was made his mandatory, he retired.

Vitali, unlike Lewis, has never been knocked cold by anybody.

Just the facts. Like you said, a medal has two sides. That's as true of Lennox as it is with anybody.

[ChopperRead]

sure they are dominant,but sure are they boring safety first people robbing fans of entertainment.

they got the power to ko half the bums they fight as soon as they man up and go for it,and i think they should look for harder challenges too before haye even
came on the scene.

if they beat hollyfield and toney ile give them full credit. sure both guys mentioned are older,but more skilled than any prospects or ranked contenders.

if not fight each other after haye and or valuev

Vitali is not and never has been a "safety-first" fighter.

Holyfield and Toney? Are you joking? The first thing their detractors -- like you no doubt -- would say in that case is that they beat "old men."

Toney got beat by Fres Oquendo and got a gift decision. Holyfield lost to Sultan Ibragimov. There is no reason for either Klitschko to fight them.

David Tua might have enough left to provide a real challenge: we'll see.