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I consider him a lying ducker as much as anyone else, but the specifics of him vs '02 Tyson is what I found intriguing and had to call the guy out on. I wasn't the one bringing up their past opponents - I was only interested in what attributes made '02 Tyson so much better than current Haye.
So anyway, I see it like this...
Tyson's head movement was still good in '02. His power and aggression were also still present, but his will had been broken thrice by that point. He had no focus, and too much mindless anger to expend - mindless anger doesn't automatically mean murder in the ring. Anyone with a jab and some guts to keep him at bay would have a good chance of beating him like Lennox did (or if they just clinched and headbutted him, like Holyfield).
Haye doesn't have great head movement. He does some slick stuff with his upper body and seems to have good reflexes if he sees the punches coming (in the case of a slower opponent), but even Maccarinelli was able to land a big left hook in the opening minute of their fight which totally wobbled him. Even Ruiz was landing some jabs to his head at will, which I found embarrassing to watch. He also gives up way too much of his height, and would probably look as short as Tyson with the way he crouches down. Bad habit for someone who's 6' 3".
Moving on to offence, and I keep saying it every time - Haye is much too gunshy for all his attributes. He obviously has big time KO power, as well as a sharp 'pop' to his punches for those quick KDs, but he just doesn't throw enough. He's like a HW Mayweather, except without the intelligent brain. With his reach he could be jabbing his man all night long and doing whatever he likes from behind it, but he elects to backpedal and look endlessly for an opening.
Tyson in '02 still punched a lot. Maybe they weren't the most accurate shots (and once his will was broken there wasn't much to them), but at the very least he always maintained some kind of punch output. That alone would give Haye something to think about and either make him run faster or start opening up some more - in the case of the latter, he would have to look for a KO, because that's the only way to stop Tyson from coming.
A watered-down representation of Haye vs '02 Tyson would be the Haye-Mormeck fight. Actually, I need to go back and watch that one again, but I remember Mormeck constantly forcing Haye backwards with Tyson-like head movement and pressure, with Haye suffering a very bad KD at some point. Yes, Haye's chin was pretty **** at CW, but Pacquiao's wasn't amazing at the lower weights either. Once you're at 200lbs, a shot to the head will hurt ffs!
Either way, if I really think about it, the Tyson who showed up against Lennox in the first round would possibly steamroll over Haye. Even Lennox had to stay calm to get out of there alive - jabs worked, the double uppercut against the ropes stopped him in his tracks, and Tyson gassed out. All that mindless anger was gone by the second round. If Haye were to survive the first-round onslaught, he'd have a good chance of getting Tyson out of there with something fast, but he would have to use his underrated (and underused) jab. Otherwise he'd get mauled before the distance.
See? Variables all over the place.Last edited by PittyPat; 05-07-2010, 04:41 PM.Comment
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PittyPat, how do you see an hypotetical Haye-Adamek fight going?Comment
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Not sure Pirao, but here's an analysis I made regarding their individual stuff. Right now I'll say Adamek wins an edgy UD.
So you're right. I checked the Showtime version and he was off-balance. Muh bay-ad. It's been a while since I watched it - I was going by memory.Last edited by PittyPat; 05-07-2010, 04:33 PM.Comment
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Haye will duck this fight just like he will the Klitchkos.Comment
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I would favor a 2002 shot version of tyson over haye based mostly on the chin factor. tyson took a tremendous amount of shots from lewis before finally getting stopped. haye doesnt hit nearly as hard as lewis and I doubt very much that tyson wouldnt land something solid on the weak chin of haye before midway through the fightComment
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