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I think there were many circumstances in Pacquiao's fights that played in his favor which I think should be taken into account when evaluating his place on all-time lists and assessing his legacy.
Manny has beaten big names, he’s fought some great fighters, just that they weren’t great when he fought them; he’s beaten them when they were washed-up, past prime or drained.
I’ve been a fan of Pacquiao since 2001, when he beat Lehlohonolo Ledwaba as a late substitute on HBO. The only fighter I can say Pacquiao beat that was prime or closest to prime was Marco Antonio Barrera in 2003. Yet, Barrera wasn’t fully prepared for this fight. I am sure you’re all aware of all the outside distractions he was going through before this fight, like his training was interrupted by the Big Bear fires, he had to find somewhere else to train, the revelation that he had undergone surgery to repair a cluster of malformed blood vessels in his head (metal plate in his head), and evaluations to determine if he was ok to continue fighting, etc. Now, none of this was Pacquiao’s fault. He did what he had to do and looked great doing it; this was Pacquiao's coming out party. I’m not a huge fan of Barrera, I did love his dismantling of the Prince though.
On his next fight he drew with Juan Manuel Marquez. Yes, Pacquiao had an explosive first round, but I was more impressed with Marquez’s ability to get up from three knockdowns, survive the round and school Pacquiao for the majority of the following rounds. That performance was badass from Marquez. I thought Marquez won that fight.
Afterwards, he was a 3 to 1 favorite to beat Morales on their first encounter. Morales had just lost to Barrera in their rubber match. Morales wasn’t shot at this point but he was past his prime, as even acknowledged by Roach when he said that Morales had nothing left and that Pacquiao would walk right through him, claiming Pacquiao was new and improved and had a new secret weapon called “Manilla Ice.” Pacquiao lost to Morales clearly. Tons of excuses then followed.
For the rematch, Morales was coming down from 135 lbs where he had practically lost all 12 rounds against Raheem. Morales wanted to rematch Pacquiao at 132 lbs. because he could no longer make 130lbs healthily, but Pacquiao refused and made him drain down to 130 lbs. So in this case, Pacquiao beat a drained Morales who had previously lost all 12 rounds to Raheem. Not a real accomplishment in my opinion, but I could see how all the Pacquiao fan’s claim this fight, he did exact revenge on a man that beat him clearly.
Then he went on to fight Oscar Larios. Oscar was fighting two weight classes above his best weight class, and he had previously been knocked out by Vasquez in 3 rounds 8 lbs south. And actually, Larios hurt Pacquiao, still this fight means nothing.
The Morales rubber match wasn’t necessary at all. Means less than nothing. By this time, it was clear Morales was completely shot and looked like a complete cadaver at the weigh in.
Then he rematched Marco Antonio Barrera 4 years after their first encounter. Barrera had just lost to Marquez the fight before, and even though Barrera was better trained this time around, he was way past his prime and Pacquiao was supposed to be better than he was 4 years prior. Yet, Pacquiao couldn’t put away an older slower fighter. Kind of gives credibility to the argument that for the first fight, Barrera was under-prepared. Not a very impressive win either, in my opinion, considering how the first fight went.
Then came the Marquez rematch. Pacquiao was 4 years better and Marquez was 4 years older, yet, I think, as most respected “experts” think, Marquez won this fight. I had Marquez winning it by 1 point, 114-113, 7 rounds to 5, with Pacquiao getting an extra point for the knockdown. Good fight, close fight, but I had Marquez winning it. It’s a true shame that Roach and Pacquiao wouldn’t give him the rubber match, why didn’t they fight Marquez a 3rd time? Either way, I have Marquez winning more rounds against Pacquiao then Pacquiao against Marquez in the 24 rounds they’ve fought, even considering the knockdowns, Marquez still pulls ahead.
Marquez and Pacquiao have fought pretty much in even terms at 126 and 130 lbs, yet, at 147 lbs, Marquez looked like crap and Pacquiao has looked phenomenal. Maybe Marquez needs to drink Pacquiao’s roided piss and not his own.
So instead of giving Marquez a well deserved 3rd fight, they go up in weight and fight not-so-dangerous David Diaz. As you all should remember, Pacquiao demolished Morales in their 3rd fight, Morales after this fight goes up in weight again and fights David Diaz, knocks him down in the 1st round and most people believe he beat David Diaz but was robbed from a victory. So to put this fight into perspective, Pacquiao beat a fighter who just had, by the publics’ opinion lost to a fighter Pacquiao had just demolished. He beat a fighter who had been beaten by a fighter who had lost 4 of his last 5 fights, losing to 2 of those 4 by knockout. All-time greatness credentials right here man I tell you.
Then comes the Oscar de la Hoya fight. Props to Pacquiao for getting this fight, but he shouldn’t get much props for beating Oscar. Don’t be fooled, even though they met at the welterweight limit of 147 lbs, this is still a catchweight. Pacquiao went up 12 lbs (actually only 7 lbs) and Oscar de la Hoya came down 7 lbs (actually 9 lbs). Oscar hadn’t weighed 145 lbs at a weigh-in in like 8 years, he only gained 2 lbs on fight night, and he hadn’t weighed that low on fight night in like 12 years. Oscar was a zombie. Good name for Pacquiao to have on his ledger, but legacy wise, again, this means nothing.
Ricky “Hitman” Hatton is next, or most fitting, Ricky “arms down, chin up, hit me” Fatton. Hatton had looked like crap vs Lazcano right after Mayweather knocked him out and before Pacquiao. Hatton is no world beater and has tish for defense. Good win, not great.
The stuff Pacquiao pulled against Cotto was BS, first making Cotto drain to 145 lbs with no title on the line because it wasn’t at the welterweight limit of 147 lbs. Then, after signing the contract, they came back with them wanting the title to be on the line. Cotto had no choice but to agree, Cotto was the champion, but Pacquiao was the money man, doesn’t change the fact that it was a BS move by Team Pacquiao. Still, this was not the same Cotto that beat Mosley, this was a Cotto that had been destroyed by Margarito, (doctored wraps or not, the point is, he was) and had just lost (unofficially) to Joshua Clottey (as Roach also believed). Good name for Pacquiao to have, not great by all-time great standards. Cotto had all odds against him.
Bob Arum hates Mayweather, and I think he too played a part in the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight not happening. It seemed like they pretty much had an opponent for Pacquiao way before negotiations halted. So they chose Clottey after flirting with the idea of Pacquiao fighting Malignaggi, who by the way has been more open then the Mayweathers in regards to his accusations of Pacquiao juicing. Yet, Team Pacquiao chose to sue the Mayweather’s but were thinking of awarding Malignaggi with a Pacquiao fight? Does that make sense to you?
I think Clottey is the strongest fighter Pacquiao has fought, but Clottey just doesn’t like to throw punches. Yet, I believe, as many believe, as Roach believes, Clottey beat Cotto. So that right there tells you were Cotto was in his career when he fought Pacquiao. In Clottey, Pacquiao was fighting a fighter whose first loss was against a fighter Mayweather beat, Carlos Baldomir. In Clottey, Pacqiuao was fighting a man who lost to a man Mayweather’s next opponent (Mosley) demolished, and that’s Antonio Margarito. Margarito is way slower than Pacquiao, yet he was still able to throw more punches against Clottey then Pacquiao did and landed almost 100 more punches than Pacquiao. This win doesn’t mean much either. I’m happy for Clottey getting this fight, but this was just a sparring session for Pacquiao.
In what areas do you agree, in what areas don't you agree?
Manny has beaten big names, he’s fought some great fighters, just that they weren’t great when he fought them; he’s beaten them when they were washed-up, past prime or drained.
I’ve been a fan of Pacquiao since 2001, when he beat Lehlohonolo Ledwaba as a late substitute on HBO. The only fighter I can say Pacquiao beat that was prime or closest to prime was Marco Antonio Barrera in 2003. Yet, Barrera wasn’t fully prepared for this fight. I am sure you’re all aware of all the outside distractions he was going through before this fight, like his training was interrupted by the Big Bear fires, he had to find somewhere else to train, the revelation that he had undergone surgery to repair a cluster of malformed blood vessels in his head (metal plate in his head), and evaluations to determine if he was ok to continue fighting, etc. Now, none of this was Pacquiao’s fault. He did what he had to do and looked great doing it; this was Pacquiao's coming out party. I’m not a huge fan of Barrera, I did love his dismantling of the Prince though.
On his next fight he drew with Juan Manuel Marquez. Yes, Pacquiao had an explosive first round, but I was more impressed with Marquez’s ability to get up from three knockdowns, survive the round and school Pacquiao for the majority of the following rounds. That performance was badass from Marquez. I thought Marquez won that fight.
Afterwards, he was a 3 to 1 favorite to beat Morales on their first encounter. Morales had just lost to Barrera in their rubber match. Morales wasn’t shot at this point but he was past his prime, as even acknowledged by Roach when he said that Morales had nothing left and that Pacquiao would walk right through him, claiming Pacquiao was new and improved and had a new secret weapon called “Manilla Ice.” Pacquiao lost to Morales clearly. Tons of excuses then followed.
For the rematch, Morales was coming down from 135 lbs where he had practically lost all 12 rounds against Raheem. Morales wanted to rematch Pacquiao at 132 lbs. because he could no longer make 130lbs healthily, but Pacquiao refused and made him drain down to 130 lbs. So in this case, Pacquiao beat a drained Morales who had previously lost all 12 rounds to Raheem. Not a real accomplishment in my opinion, but I could see how all the Pacquiao fan’s claim this fight, he did exact revenge on a man that beat him clearly.
Then he went on to fight Oscar Larios. Oscar was fighting two weight classes above his best weight class, and he had previously been knocked out by Vasquez in 3 rounds 8 lbs south. And actually, Larios hurt Pacquiao, still this fight means nothing.
The Morales rubber match wasn’t necessary at all. Means less than nothing. By this time, it was clear Morales was completely shot and looked like a complete cadaver at the weigh in.
Then he rematched Marco Antonio Barrera 4 years after their first encounter. Barrera had just lost to Marquez the fight before, and even though Barrera was better trained this time around, he was way past his prime and Pacquiao was supposed to be better than he was 4 years prior. Yet, Pacquiao couldn’t put away an older slower fighter. Kind of gives credibility to the argument that for the first fight, Barrera was under-prepared. Not a very impressive win either, in my opinion, considering how the first fight went.
Then came the Marquez rematch. Pacquiao was 4 years better and Marquez was 4 years older, yet, I think, as most respected “experts” think, Marquez won this fight. I had Marquez winning it by 1 point, 114-113, 7 rounds to 5, with Pacquiao getting an extra point for the knockdown. Good fight, close fight, but I had Marquez winning it. It’s a true shame that Roach and Pacquiao wouldn’t give him the rubber match, why didn’t they fight Marquez a 3rd time? Either way, I have Marquez winning more rounds against Pacquiao then Pacquiao against Marquez in the 24 rounds they’ve fought, even considering the knockdowns, Marquez still pulls ahead.
Marquez and Pacquiao have fought pretty much in even terms at 126 and 130 lbs, yet, at 147 lbs, Marquez looked like crap and Pacquiao has looked phenomenal. Maybe Marquez needs to drink Pacquiao’s roided piss and not his own.
So instead of giving Marquez a well deserved 3rd fight, they go up in weight and fight not-so-dangerous David Diaz. As you all should remember, Pacquiao demolished Morales in their 3rd fight, Morales after this fight goes up in weight again and fights David Diaz, knocks him down in the 1st round and most people believe he beat David Diaz but was robbed from a victory. So to put this fight into perspective, Pacquiao beat a fighter who just had, by the publics’ opinion lost to a fighter Pacquiao had just demolished. He beat a fighter who had been beaten by a fighter who had lost 4 of his last 5 fights, losing to 2 of those 4 by knockout. All-time greatness credentials right here man I tell you.
Then comes the Oscar de la Hoya fight. Props to Pacquiao for getting this fight, but he shouldn’t get much props for beating Oscar. Don’t be fooled, even though they met at the welterweight limit of 147 lbs, this is still a catchweight. Pacquiao went up 12 lbs (actually only 7 lbs) and Oscar de la Hoya came down 7 lbs (actually 9 lbs). Oscar hadn’t weighed 145 lbs at a weigh-in in like 8 years, he only gained 2 lbs on fight night, and he hadn’t weighed that low on fight night in like 12 years. Oscar was a zombie. Good name for Pacquiao to have on his ledger, but legacy wise, again, this means nothing.
Ricky “Hitman” Hatton is next, or most fitting, Ricky “arms down, chin up, hit me” Fatton. Hatton had looked like crap vs Lazcano right after Mayweather knocked him out and before Pacquiao. Hatton is no world beater and has tish for defense. Good win, not great.
The stuff Pacquiao pulled against Cotto was BS, first making Cotto drain to 145 lbs with no title on the line because it wasn’t at the welterweight limit of 147 lbs. Then, after signing the contract, they came back with them wanting the title to be on the line. Cotto had no choice but to agree, Cotto was the champion, but Pacquiao was the money man, doesn’t change the fact that it was a BS move by Team Pacquiao. Still, this was not the same Cotto that beat Mosley, this was a Cotto that had been destroyed by Margarito, (doctored wraps or not, the point is, he was) and had just lost (unofficially) to Joshua Clottey (as Roach also believed). Good name for Pacquiao to have, not great by all-time great standards. Cotto had all odds against him.
Bob Arum hates Mayweather, and I think he too played a part in the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight not happening. It seemed like they pretty much had an opponent for Pacquiao way before negotiations halted. So they chose Clottey after flirting with the idea of Pacquiao fighting Malignaggi, who by the way has been more open then the Mayweathers in regards to his accusations of Pacquiao juicing. Yet, Team Pacquiao chose to sue the Mayweather’s but were thinking of awarding Malignaggi with a Pacquiao fight? Does that make sense to you?
I think Clottey is the strongest fighter Pacquiao has fought, but Clottey just doesn’t like to throw punches. Yet, I believe, as many believe, as Roach believes, Clottey beat Cotto. So that right there tells you were Cotto was in his career when he fought Pacquiao. In Clottey, Pacquiao was fighting a fighter whose first loss was against a fighter Mayweather beat, Carlos Baldomir. In Clottey, Pacqiuao was fighting a man who lost to a man Mayweather’s next opponent (Mosley) demolished, and that’s Antonio Margarito. Margarito is way slower than Pacquiao, yet he was still able to throw more punches against Clottey then Pacquiao did and landed almost 100 more punches than Pacquiao. This win doesn’t mean much either. I’m happy for Clottey getting this fight, but this was just a sparring session for Pacquiao.
In what areas do you agree, in what areas don't you agree?
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