Lucian Bute(BOO-TAY) vs Andre ward in OAKLAND, who takes it???

[Tiozzo]

if it's in a neutral place, bute by close ud. ward's got a little bit more precise jab, but i'd give the nod to bute on every other punch in the speed/power/accuracy dept.

nothing against ward though, you use what you can, but i think the man needs those headbutts.

Ward hasn't build his career using headbutts. With or without headbutts, he was whooping Kessler.

[geribeetus]

Ward hasn't build his career using headbutts. With or without headbutts, he was whooping Kessler.

i still think he would've beaten kessler, but i don't know about whooping.

[Tiozzo]

i still think he would've beaten kessler, but i don't know about whooping.

Headbutts happened as late as rounds 8 9 or 10 (don't remember, but no sooner than 8).

Ward was already putting a clinic on him. Fact.

[BattlingNelson]

Headbutts happened as late as rounds 8 9 or 10 (don't remember, but no sooner than 8).

Ward was already putting a clinic on him. Fact.

Headbutts was there as early as round 4.

[SplitSecond]

bute is'nt as crap as kessler, i think he could have a good chance

[geribeetus]

Headbutts happened as late as rounds 8 9 or 10 (don't remember, but no sooner than 8).

Ward was already putting a clinic on him. Fact.

nah i remember them being earlier than that. you're right they did get real bad in the late rounds though. like i said, ward was still the better man, but kessler fell apart because of the headbutting and general bhoppery imo. that **** hurts a lot worse than a punch.

[Tiozzo]

Headbutts was there as early as round 4.

Headbutts that opened the cuts happened as late as round 8 or 9. Fact.

If a headbutt happened in round 4, it had no visible effect on Kessler as far as cuts are concerned. Post a video if you disagree.

We already had this discussion. 1 cut caused by a punch under the eye, 2 by headbutts later in the fight

ref did a poor job, but it was in the bag already before the butts that opened the cuts happened. Fact.

[Tiozzo]

nah i remember them being earlier than that. you're right they did get real bad in the late rounds though. like i said, ward was still the better man, but kessler fell apart because of the headbutting and general bhoppery imo. that **** hurts a lot worse than a punch.

go watch again, as I did when I argued with BattlingNelson in another thread over the same subject. The butts that opened the cuts happened no sooner than round 8, go watch again

[Tiozzo]

bute is'nt as crap as kessler, i think he could have a good chance

funny, you talk as if Ward was the man when he is not
he beat Miranda (UD, and Bute KO3) and Kessler, and that's it
Ward has a great talent, but he is not the man to beat yet, Bute is for now

[geribeetus]

go watch again, as I did when I argued with BattlingNelson in another thread over the same subject. The butts that opened the cuts happened no sooner than round 8, go watch again

dude you need to calm down, this is a boxing forum not a laboratory. stop talking like some professional debater.

anyway, i never said anything about cuts. but the headbutts were there in the early rounds. and like i said, those things hurt. no headgear in professional boxing to cushion a headbutt.