Two what if scenarios?

**Benoit Gaudet** · 06-08-2005, 10:22 PM

holyfield I think would definatley be considered top 5 if he retired after tyson....rjj i aint so sure...he would be considered an arguable great for sure, but you'd still have alot of debate because of the tier level of his opposition

**bfg** · 06-08-2005, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by Benoit Gaudet

holyfield I think would definatley be considered top 5 if he retired after tyson....rjj i aint so sure...he would be considered an arguable great for sure, but you'd still have alot of debate because of the tier level of his opposition

I think RJJ's reputation was tarnished more than Holyfield because Holyfield was arguably shot by the time he started losing bad...Everyone still thought RJ was at, or near, the top of his game when he fought Tarver the first time...consecutive knockouts don't help either.

**Benoit Gaudet** · 06-08-2005, 10:43 PM

^^^^

word, that's true...holyfield will still go down as one of the best heavys ever, just cause was madd old when the bulk of his losses came...boxing forgives dudes for fightin past their prime

**JUYJUY** · 06-08-2005, 10:51 PM

Jones Jr would of had less chance of going down as an all-time great, because seeing him laid out made people feel sorry for the reluctant fraud.

Holyfield? No better rated than he is now, he made a name for himself by beating up a fallen-apart legend. But one of the top 15 HW's of all-time? No way!

**Benoit Gaudet** · 06-08-2005, 11:00 PM

oh man, you gotta put him in the top 15! jesus he's a blown up cruiser who fought monsters his whole career...and he ko'd tyson in 96'...tyson still had that aura of invincibility around him, and he wrecked him.

**MetalVomit** · 06-08-2005, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by JUYJUY

Jones Jr would of had less chance of going down as an all-time great, because seeing him laid out made people feel sorry for the reluctant fraud.

Holyfield? No better rated than he is now, he made a name for himself by beating up a fallen-apart legend. But one of the top 15 HW's of all-time? No way!

Reluctant fraud? Wow, why is RJJ a fraud?

Holyfield made a name for himself by fighting the best in his division and winning titles.

**Benoit Gaudet** · 06-08-2005, 11:14 PM

exactly, he's a legit 3 time heavyweight champ

**MrCoop** · 06-09-2005, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by JUYJUY

Jones Jr would of had less chance of going down as an all-time great, because seeing him laid out made people feel sorry for the reluctant fraud.

Holyfield? No better rated than he is now, he made a name for himself by beating up a fallen-apart legend. But one of the top 15 HW's of all-time? No way!

I'm new to this site, but this sounds like something you'd say just from the short time I've been reading your posts. Roy Jones Jr is one of top fighters of all-time as well as Holyfield. RJJ fought very good fighters early in his career & his speed & skill was too much for all them. Now that he is older he has lost some speed & skill due to age or constantly going up & down in weight. People are catching him with shots now that would have never hit him in his prime. Holyfield was a classic warrior & not only made a name for himself by beating Tyson (did you forget a great trilogy with Bowe). His wars & age caught up with him around the time he fought Lewis. 1st Lewis fight was a ridiculous outcome, but I actually thought Holy faired well in 2nd fight & could have seen that more as a draw, but since 1st fight was so badly judged everyone had Lewis winning 2nd. If Holy was in the type of shape he was in 2nd Bowe fight I believe Lewis would have been beat. Alot of fighters stay around too long. Some say it is ******, but I believe it is not being able to swallow their own pride. Either way you are completely wrong RJJ is a top 5 middle of all-time as well as Holy a top 5 heavyweight.

**JUYJUY** · 06-09-2005, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by MrCoop

I'm new to this site, but this sounds like something you'd say just from the short time I've been reading your posts. Roy Jones Jr is one of top fighters of all-time as well as Holyfield. RJJ fought very good fighters early in his career & his speed & skill was too much for all them. Now that he is older he has lost some speed & skill due to age or constantly going up & down in weight. People are catching him with shots now that would have never hit him in his prime. Either way you are completely wrong RJJ is a top 5 middle of all-time as well as Holy a top 5 heavyweight.

Roy Jones avoided the best fighters in his division his whole career. Ofcourse now we know why he wouldn't fight the best all along, it's been proven in his last couple of fights - he didn't have a strong enough chin to mix it with the big boys.

Gerald McClellan was Ring Magazine's number one Middleweight in 1993 and 1994, Roy Jones was number two, McClellan was number one. (McClellan defeated Jones Jr at the 1988 Golden Gloves, by the way).

Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Steve Collins and Frankie Liles were all World Champions at Super-Middleweight when Roy Jones was at Super-Middleweight, Roy Jones fought none of them. Roy Jones defended his IBF Super-Middleweight title five times - three of which weren't even ranked in the top 10, the other was a 'blown-up' Lightweight, and the only Super-Middleweight challenger of Jones' who was even ranked in the top 10 was Bryant Brannon who was Jones' mandatory at the time (Bryant who?? LOL!).

We all know that Jones Jr stayed well clear of Dariusz Michalczewski for years and years at Light-Heavyweight, Michalczewski was undefeated World Champion at Light-Heavy at the same time that Jones Jr was at that weight.

Two what if scenarios?