Is Floyd above the NSAC?

[Carpe Diem]

STOP

Floyd isn't changing the rules. Floyd isn't running the Commission. No Commission rules are being broken.

What Floyd and Shane are doing is called "CONDITIONS" , not "RULES". Pacquiao fans are repeating the Top Rank storyline without analysis. Groupthink.

Say you live in a subdivision, there is no city ordinance or law (rule) against you painting your house Laker Purple and Yellow. But your subdivision has a covenant (condition) that prevents that.

In every business, municipality, etc, there are always instances where deals are done that are "more restrictive" than the law. For example, in boxing, you have catchweights. Pac and Cotto can fight for a belt at 145 because that is more (not less) restrictive than the Boxing weight rules. They couldn't fight at 148 because that woukd be less restrictive.

Haven't any of you ever taken a Business law class?

Another example is Zoning. Your store may be zoned for retail, but the shopping mall you are in may restrict the sale of alcoholic beverages...even though it is legal in your county. This is done all the time.

Floyd is saying that the conditions for fighting him are that you have to submit to OST.
Similarly, Pacquiao is saying that the conditions for fighting him are that you have to pay a $10 million weight penalty (which is more restrictive than the 10% NSAC fine).

Can y'all get your hands around this?

The issue is NOT that Floyd is usurping the NSAC. It is not. The only reason why the drug test is such a contentious issue is because the topic of drug testing is 1) new, 2) sexy and salacious, and 3) carries the undertone of su****ion and accusation.

I have heard some people say "why didn't Floyd go to the Commission to change the rules?" Well, he didn't want to go through the hassle. Not when he can just set conditions on his fights. Just like your subdivision isn't going to fight City Hall to create house paint color laws. Not when they can simply put those restrictions in their HOA covenants.

I'm trying to explain this in a fair, unemotional way because you guys are so polarized and entrenched.

Another example: Say there was a FEDERAL law that set the speed limit at 70. Any state can then set their own law at 55, 65, or 70. But they couldn't set a state speed limit at 75. Get it?

Pac fans, Floyd has the right to set conditions on his fight. He isn't violating ethics or rules by doing that. If he was, don't you think the NSAC (a public, governmental entity) would stop him? It hurts my eyes and offends my intelligence when you guys say that.


* I used a zoning example because I have a lot of development experience.

DAMN. Give him some Green K's..

[shekwan]

Well isn't that where this is heading? TRUE change. That starts from top and organizational structure, and culture. You must take away from hands of promotors, but boxing will never do that because the promotors do not want to give up control nor the money. Cost justification of drug testing is a legitmate concern. Just like 95% of companies in America require you to take a piss test instead of testing for hair samples which is much more accurate up to 6 months. It's too expensive. I have not heard one logical argument for cost justification other than Keith Kizer saying, "It's too important not to." Well, just because my company uses urine test, and I can beat the urine tests for pot very easily, does not invalidate any of the testing done to all the employees in my work nor am I going accuse someone at work for drugs with no proof because there is a better test out there.

Fact of the matter is, boxing needs to organize itself like a National League (NFL, NBA, MLB), with a boxing commissioner, and a players union where players interests are protected. John McCain has legislation for this. Set these guys up with health care, Roth IRA's, etc. If there was a League Office with standardized testing and a commissioner with teeth, then you would see Floyd being fined for his comments, and the players union would be protecting the rights of BOTH Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

People are picking this shet apart, because it's an ill conceived concept to begin with. Better drug testing! Ok fine. Show us how your going to do it, and for everyone.... not just one boxer here or there. What is the long term step by step solution in how you can implement this? What are the alternative cost justified solutions? Instead of issuing press statements patting yourself on back as some pioneer that reads more like an advertisement before any significant breakthroughs have EVER been made, show us something more. Give us a plan that's accountable and has enforcement.

Otherwise, you're just making shet up as you go along.

Forget Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

The cost justification for Olympic drug testing gets blurry when you go from the Glenn Johnsons and Sergio Mora's of the world to the journeyman fighters who only make $50k.

Consider this:

The Beijing Olympics had 11K athletes being tested.
This happens only ONCE every 4 years.
The testing period was roughly 1 month.

Now let's include EVERY fighter that fights in America EVERY year.
Not every 4 years, but EVERY year.
Year round testing.

REPEAT. Year Round Testing.

How many boxers are in America?
International fighters that fight in America under State government agencies?

Who's gonna pay for the journeyman who makes his living as a sparring partner?

Who's gonna pay for the Freddie Lopez, Ulysis Lara's of the world?

Now let's include the women boxers....yeah, they need to be tested too.

Add the MMA fighters....yes, them too. How many MMA fighters do the Commissions now have to worry about? Seriously, give me a plan instead of talking in absolutes like this MUST be DONE. Cost justify it, so we can have a real discussion on changing boxing. I'm guessing US fighters, international fighters that fight within US, women fighters, MMA fighters from club level up are at least twice the amount of athletes tested in Olympics.

Everybody agrees better drug testing is good, but how is it going to be implemented. This is for EVERYONE. It must be truly national for any change. Not just Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather.

Before you slam the State Commissions, understand these are only a portion of items that the Commissions are thinking about when considering implementing OST drug testing.

How are you gonna change the culture of the sanctioning bodies, promotors, etc....not just benefiting Floyd Mayweather, Jr.s fights. Answer me these questions?

That's what I expect from a "pioneer."

Vision. Without any, your just making shet up as you go along.

[And Still]

Forget Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

The cost justification for Olympic drug testing gets blurry when you go from the Glenn Johnsons and Sergio Mora's of the world to the journeyman fighters who only make $50k.

Consider this:

The Beijing Olympics had 11K athletes being tested.
This happens only ONCE every 4 years.
The testing period was roughly 1 month.

Now let's include EVERY fighter that fights in America EVERY year.
Not every 4 years, but EVERY year.
Year round testing.
.

That is not accurate.

Here are the number of samples analyzed by WADA per year:

2003: 113,559
2004: 128,591
2005: 139,836
2006: 156,866
2007: 174,483
2008: 202,067

As you will notice, there are not necessarily huge spiikes in Olympic years. That is because OOC (out of competition) testing is so prevalent.

And all the Federations can afford it. Whether it's the rowing team, the curling team, or basketball.

Boxing just needs to set up a program like track, for example. The better you are, or the faster you rise, the more you get tested. Perhaps you only test the #81 ranked welterweight once per year. But if someone does a carlos Baldomir - type arc, you increase his test frequency.

[Shadow boxer 3]

if they want the result then they should hav administered the test themselves instead of letting someone else pay for it

[And Still]

I wanted to give a couple of examples of the testing history of some of our top athletes:

Michael Phelps:

2001: 5
2002: 6
2003: 8
2004: 9
2005: 10
2006: 11
2007: 12
2008: 36 (post-testing for all his wins)
2009: 9

Tyson gay:

2002: 1
2003:n/a
2004: 2
2005: 3
2006: 8
2007: 7
2008: 28 (post-testing for all his wins, too)
2009: 3


Phelps was being tested by USADA about one a month even in a non-competition year.

[And Still]

if they want the result then they should hav administered the test themselves instead of letting someone else pay for it

Nah... I respect NSAC. If Floyd is serious about cleaning up the sport, then he can pay for his tests, and shoot the results to NSAC just to help educate them on the processes.

Right?

[Vasyl’s dad]

Auther Abraham uses it. Alexander Povetkin wants it for Wladimir Klitschko. There will be more fighters requesting it and this is not going away.

Thats great and all,

but um,

when did they fight in Nevada again?

[Vasyl’s dad]

What the hell kind of point is that, it has happeaned before in Germany with Universum and going forward who knows when it will get asked for. Right now it is being done for the biggest fight of the year in the US (for now) and that is a good place to start since two huge names doing it will allow other fighters who felt like they could not ask for something like that to feel empowered.

I can't know how many boxers will ask for OST in the future since I don't know the future but I would think there are guys that are clean that would want it.

Look dummy,

you're the one saying this needs to be done for other fighters as well.

Fine, I don't disagree.

I'm just asking you,

right now,
which other fighters have upcoming bouts in Nevada that will use OST?

Nobody.

Thats the point. You can't complain that "its not happening to anybody else, but it should be".

When other fighters have fights in Nevada, I'm more than positive they'll have to endure the same procedures for this fight.

The funny thing is,

you're bitching, and you don't even know why.

[Vasyl’s dad]

Well isn't that where this is heading? TRUE change. That starts from top and organizational structure, and culture. You must take away from hands of promotors, but boxing will never do that because the promotors do not want to give up control nor the money. Cost justification of drug testing is a legitmate concern. Just like 95% of companies in America require you to take a piss test instead of testing for hair samples which is much more accurate up to 6 months. It's too expensive. I have not heard one logical argument for cost justification other than Keith Kizer saying, "It's too important not to." Well, just because my company uses urine test, and I can beat the urine tests for pot very easily, does not invalidate any of the testing done to all the employees in my work nor am I going accuse someone at work for drugs with no proof because there is a better test out there.

Fact of the matter is, boxing needs to organize itself like a National League (NFL, NBA, MLB), with a boxing commissioner, and a players union where players interests are protected. John McCain has legislation for this. Set these guys up with health care, Roth IRA's, etc. If there was a League Office with standardized testing and a commissioner with teeth, then you would see Floyd being fined for his comments, and the players union would be protecting the rights of BOTH Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

People are picking this shet apart, because it's an ill conceived concept to begin with. Better drug testing! Ok fine. Show us how your going to do it, and for everyone.... not just one boxer here or there. What is the long term step by step solution in how you can implement this? What are the alternative cost justified solutions? Instead of issuing press statements patting yourself on back as some pioneer that reads more like an advertisement before any significant breakthroughs have EVER been made, show us something more. Give us a plan that's accountable and has enforcement.

Otherwise, you're just making shet up as you go along.

[Vasyl’s dad]

Forget Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

The cost justification for Olympic drug testing gets blurry when you go from the Glenn Johnsons and Sergio Mora's of the world to the journeyman fighters who only make $50k.

Consider this:

The Beijing Olympics had 11K athletes being tested.
This happens only ONCE every 4 years.
The testing period was roughly 1 month.

Now let's include EVERY fighter that fights in America EVERY year.
Not every 4 years, but EVERY year.
Year round testing.

REPEAT. Year Round Testing.

How many boxers are in America?
International fighters that fight in America under State government agencies?

Who's gonna pay for the journeyman who makes his living as a sparring partner?

Who's gonna pay for the Freddie Lopez, Ulysis Lara's of the world?

Now let's include the women boxers....yeah, they need to be tested too.

Add the MMA fighters....yes, them too. How many MMA fighters do the Commissions now have to worry about? Seriously, give me a plan instead of talking in absolutes like this MUST be DONE. Cost justify it, so we can have a real discussion on changing boxing. I'm guessing US fighters, international fighters that fight within US, women fighters, MMA fighters from club level up are at least twice the amount of athletes tested in Olympics.

Everybody agrees better drug testing is good, but how is it going to be implemented. This is for EVERYONE. It must be truly national for any change. Not just Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather.

Before you slam the State Commissions, understand these are only a portion of items that the Commissions are thinking about when considering implementing OST drug testing.

How are you gonna change the culture of the sanctioning bodies, promotors, etc....not just benefiting Floyd Mayweather, Jr.s fights. Answer me these questions?

That's what I expect from a "pioneer."

Vision. Without any, your just making shet up as you go along.

You are simply doing an outstanding job.

Well done.