Bernard Hopkins - time to fight or time to retire?

[Truth]

Maybe it would be better if Hopkins retired after the Taylor fight. But if Glen Johnson beats Tarver I think he should fight Johnson at 175.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

But there's nothing worse than seeing a doddering granddad staggering around the ring, avoiding anything approaching a fight and selecting the weakest opponents with which to pump up his "20 defences" workrate.

Admittedly you have not seen his fights vs the best middleweights out there (and yes he did fight them all who were available). This makes your judgement next to useless. Also you judge Hopkins for running 4-5 rounds when he was FORTY vs Eastman, and still you fail to acknowledge the whipping Hopkins gave Eastman in the last half of the fight. Bernard hasn't avoided anyone. Styles don't make you great anyway, buddy, if that's what you are saying. Style is all a amtter of taste.

I root against Bernard EVERY TIME HE FIGHTS. I don't like his style, etc. However, anyone who doesn't understand that Bernard is great is a complete joke that I cannot take seriously. If Bernard isn't a great fighter, no one from any country in the last 10 years is...period.

[Guest]

Admittedly you have not seen his fights vs the best middleweights out there (and yes he did fight them all who were available). This makes your judgement next to useless. Also you judge Hopkins for running 4-5 rounds when he was FORTY vs Eastman, and still you fail to acknowledge the whipping Hopkins gave Eastman in the last half of the fight. Bernard hasn't avoided anyone. Styles don't make you great anyway, buddy, if that's what you are saying. Style is all a amtter of taste.

I root against Bernard EVERY TIME HE FIGHTS. I don't like his style, etc. However, anyone who doesn't understand that Bernard is great is a complete joke that I cannot take seriously. If Bernard isn't a great fighter, no one from any country in the last 10 years is...period.

See, this is what people always say in defence of Hopkins (and you don't even like him that much)... "he fights that way because he's forty".


For one thing there's a ****er who admittedly doesn't have Hopkins's skill (Carl "The Cat" Thompson), who is 41 yet ****s like a young 'un. He's world class if not a world beater, and is currently the 5th rated Cruiser on Boxrec. I would say he's not that famous because he's a Limey, but he's not that famous over here either, despite always being watchable.

But the most important point is, if he can't box to the fullest of his ability because of his age (and I agree, he's nearly ready to be taken now)... he should just get the **** out. Seriously. Look at the title of this thread. Fight or retire.

If he doesn't want to fight, then he should just piss off out of the ring. Leave his silly grandaddy dancing for a wedding disco and let people who actually want to fight to have a go.


Again - "style". I have nothing against an evasive, countering style. Hopkins vs. Eastman wasn't.

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

Admittedly you have not seen his fights vs the best middleweights out there (and yes he did fight them all who were available). This makes your judgement next to useless. Also you judge Hopkins for running 4-5 rounds when he was FORTY vs Eastman, and still you fail to acknowledge the whipping Hopkins gave Eastman in the last half of the fight. Bernard hasn't avoided anyone. Styles don't make you great anyway, buddy, if that's what you are saying. Style is all a amtter of taste.

I root against Bernard EVERY TIME HE FIGHTS. I don't like his style, etc. However, anyone who doesn't understand that Bernard is great is a complete joke that I cannot take seriously. If Bernard isn't a great fighter, no one from any country in the last 10 years is...period.

I'm sorry fella but that's only your opinion, and I would say that I know more people that would dissagree with that than agree with it.

Maybe it's because you live in the States, and they drum all this marketing stuff into you on the tv? But outside the US Bernard is seen very differently.

I think some boxing fans, (I dunno maybe you?) have the Citizen Kane syndrome... All film critics say it's the greatest film ever, and they won't change their opinion on that because they're scared that other critics won't take them seriously... It's like the blind leading the blind.

I prefer people to just shoot straight with me and say, "Citizen Kane is NOT the best film ever, it's ok but there are far better films out there!".

Same **** with Bernard... You don't have to follow the pack on everything, that's just f**kin' boring... Stray away and have an individual opinion, and then give reasons WHY you think that way.

[Guest]

I actually WANT someone to justify WHY Bernard's so "great". Because he wobbles around like a silly old ****er on a zimmer frame? I don't give two ****s about what he was like THEN, I want to know why he's so great NOW.

It's irrelevant to me what he was like years ago (you're talking the "getting schooled by Roy" era, right?) because he wasn't top of the p4p list then.

[Bombardier]

Maybe it's because you live in the States, and they drum all this marketing stuff into you on the tv? But outside the US Bernard is seen very differently.

Well I'm from Canada and people like him just fine over here. People seem to be bringing up either the RJJ-loss Hopkins or the current Hopkins. I mean, what the hell, how about the 10 years in between those two fights.

Seriously, for vintage Hopkins check out these fights:

Trinidad, of course
Glencoffe
Vanderpool
Echols I and II (two is admittedly dirty as hell, but a great scrap nonetheless)
Mercado II

And those are just off the top of my head.

Hopkins has out-smarted every fighter he's come up against in his glory years. He can change his tactics in the middle of a fight (unlike say Trinidad). He sizes you up and then defeats you in the way you deserve. If he has to work for the win, he will work. If he doesn't, he won't.

He gave Trinidad a head-to-toe beating because he knew he had to keep the pressure up to keep him at bay. He takes it easy with Eastman or say Robert Allen because there's no point to exhausting himself beating those guys.

When he has to be he's a stalker. He kept his fists at bay against Oscar until it was time to take care of business. Once he had him figured out, Oscar was down within a couple of rounds.

So you have a fighter who is a student of the game, who can beat you at your own game, and has managed to get through a career that started late with his head still on his shoulders and a few fistfulls of cash to boot. What more needs to be said?

[Guest]

B, I agree about the Oscar fight, he played him like a ***** until Oscar lay down so they could rake in the cash and embark on a promotional management... er, I meant, until Oscar got KOed.

But stuff years ago is no reflection on why he's ranked #1 p4p NOW.

[Bombardier]

B, I agree about the Oscar fight, he played him like a ***** until Oscar lay down so they could rake in the cash and embark on a promotional management... er, I meant, until Oscar got KOed.

But stuff years ago is no reflection on why he's ranked #1 p4p NOW.

I guess we could go around and around debating this. I would personally put Mayweather at #1, so in a way I agree with you. Things always happen this way, though. A guy gets to be number one and maybe he stays there longer than he should because of what he's done over his entire career. Sort of a lifetime achivement award in a way. When RJJ was up there people were saying the same thing. Suddenly none of his opponents were any good. Suddenly he hadn't done anything recently to deserve the rnaking. Suddenly he wasn't really that good a fighter, just a guy with a hard punch and inhuman reflexes. Same thing, see?

Maybe some people here are overdoing the Hopkins-love a bit. I'm not sure because I only notice that when it's fighters that I don't like, like Margartio (well, in that case, I like the guy people are saying he will beat). For sure he's showing his age, but I will be impressed if he beats Taylor because he is getting to be so old and because Taylor is tailor-made (no pun inteneded) to beat him: he hits hard and he's a smart fighter as well.

[Run]

I hate to inform you Anorak.....but you need to watch more Hopkins fights man. You seem to have this idea that he runs from everyone. That is only as of late.

He used to be the most rugged inside fighter who chased everyone around the ring. People were scared of him....because of the way he fought: Which was coming straight at you and taking the fight to you.



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[Guest]

I hate to inform you Anorak.....but you need to watch more Hopkins fights man. You seem to have this idea that he runs from everyone. That is only as of late.

He used to be the most rugged inside fighter who chased everyone around the ring. People were scared of him....because of the way he fought: Which was coming straight at you and taking the fight to you.

Yeah, but this is what I'm saying. I said right from my very first post that I acknowledge he used to lived up to his Executioner name. But lately he's pretty mediocre.

I think that's what gets me... all the praise. I don't see talent. Not excessive talent. Roy Jones pre-Tarver could have fought tin cans and I would still have been impressed by the skill.