Manny Pacquiao best southpaw ever??

[check hook]

I have said a case can be made for Hagler for #2 but if people think a case can not be made for Pac at #2 then that I don't understand...

Well for starters how impressive is 7 titles in 7 (or 6 whatever) divisions in this day and age......really??? When you have:

- WBO
- IBO
- WBA
- WBC
- IBF


etc


When u can win a title from diaz at 135......when u can win a title at a catchweight......no problem with a catchweight but sanctioning bodies should not be able to put the title up at any weight other than the official one.... lets not forget it was a paper title that Cotto won from Jennings......a title that Arum had every intention of passing to either Clottey or Pac......Roach and Pac chose Cotto for the money....not because they fight the best.....i have no problem with that....but why say otherwise........


It's just not as impressive in this day and age.......



Hagler fought Leonard, Hearns and Duran....he beat 2 of them....an argument can be made that he beat all 3.......and this is when championship matches were 15 rds.........


hagler = number 1 or 2.......pac = number 3 at the absolute highest!!!!

[jrosales13]

Naw Mayweather is better then anyone Sweet Pea ever fought. And that includes Chavez, Trinidad, Oscar and Nelson.

He might be more skilled but not greater than Chavez... Whitaker in his prime schooled ATG's went up to 154 and scored the most underrated win in his career againast a very strong Julio Cesar Vazquez(who dropped Winky liek 5 times) beat HOF'er like Azumah Nelson and top fighters like Ramirez and Paez...

Whitaker is top 15-20 all time... Even if Pac beats Floyd he might not even break top 20 it would depend on how he wins. But, I doubt and if he did it will be in the lower teens. Whitaker would still rank higher...

[check hook]

[QUOTE=jrosales13;7638558]He might be more skilled but not greater than Chavez... Whitaker in his prime schooled ATG's went up to 154 and scored the most underrated win in his career againast a very strong Julio Cesar Vazquez(who dropped Winky liek 5 times) beat HOF'er like Azumah Nelson and top fighters like Ramirez and Paez...

Whitaker is top 15-20 all time... Even if Pac beats Floyd he might not even break top 20 it would depend on how he wins. But, I doubt and if he did it will be in the lower teens. Whitaker would still rank higher...[/QUOTE]





The truth in BOLD!!!!!!!!!

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

He might be more skilled but not greater than Chavez... Whitaker in his prime schooled ATG's went up to 154 and scored the most underrated win in his career againast a very strong Julio Cesar Vazquez(who dropped Winky liek 5 times) beat HOF'er like Azumah Nelson and top fighters like Ramirez and Paez...

Whitaker is top 15-20 all time... Even if Pac beats Floyd he might not even break top 20 it would depend on how he wins. But, I doubt and if he did it will be in the lower teens. Whitaker would still rank higher...

Oh naw Im talkng pure skill and talent. Pac beats Mayweather hes the best Lefty IMO. Even the old heads recognize Floyds skill level its really insane and for Pac to beat him it will go along way.

[nujabes77]

the greatest southpaw of all time


/thread

[nujabes77]

Well for starters how impressive is 7 titles in 7 (or 6 whatever) divisions in this day and age......really??? When you have:

- WBO
- IBO
- WBA
- WBC
- IBF


etc


When u can win a title from diaz at 135......when u can win a title at a catchweight......no problem with a catchweight but sanctioning bodies should not be able to put the title up at any weight other than the official one.... lets not forget it was a paper title that Cotto won from Jennings......a title that Arum had every intention of passing to either Clottey or Pac......Roach and Pac chose Cotto for the money....not because they fight the best.....i have no problem with that....but why say otherwise........


It's just not as impressive in this day and age.......



Hagler fought Leonard, Hearns and Duran....he beat 2 of them....an argument can be made that he beat all 3.......and this is when championship matches were 15 rds.........


hagler = number 1 or 2.......pac = number 3 at the absolute highest!!!!

how impressive? lmao if its son common like you think it is then ***n name me a fighter who has done it 'in this day and age....'

******

[jrosales13]

Well for starters how impressive is 7 titles in 7 (or 6 whatever) divisions in this day and age......really??? When you have:

- WBO
- IBO
- WBA
- WBC
- IBF


etc


When u can win a title from diaz at 135......when u can win a title at a catchweight......no problem with a catchweight but sanctioning bodies should not be able to put the title up at any weight other than the official one.... lets not forget it was a paper title that Cotto won from Jennings......a title that Arum had every intention of passing to either Clottey or Pac......Roach and Pac chose Cotto for the money....not because they fight the best.....i have no problem with that....but why say otherwise........


It's just not as impressive in this day and age.......



Hagler fought Leonard, Hearns and Duran....he beat 2 of them....an argument can be made that he beat all 3.......and this is when championship matches were 15 rds.........


hagler = number 1 or 2.......pac = number 3 at the absolute highest!!!!

7 titles and 7 divisions, 4 lineal titles in 4 divisions... I don't see how that can not be that impressive in this day and age since nobody has done it in the last 20-30yrs... lets not act like these weight-classes and titles were not around for the last 20-30yrs. Because they were... And, he was the only one who accomplished it. If it easy then why hasn't anybody else done it? So I don't see how that can not be impressive...

And, lets not forget that Whitaker-Chavez fought at the same catch-weight of 145. Not for no paper title mind you but for the lineal true WW title... Nobody cared about the lineal title being up for grabs at 145 so why do we care so much now for the WBO title to be up for grabs at 145? So IMO that catchweight holds no water...

And, the most underrated stat in all this is that the flyweight division and the featherweight division was around for over a 100yrs so was the lineal belt. Pac is the only fighter ever to win the lineal belts in both weight-class. Again if it so easy and not that impressive then why did nobody else accomplished it in over 100yrs...

And, I don't want to diss Hagler he fought all those ATG's but lets not forget he was the favorite to win all of them... I know for a fact he was a favorite to beat Leonard, people feared for Leonard life, he was a huge favorite over Duran, I think he was the favorite against Hearns but I am not so sure with that one... Not trying to diss Hagler cuz I have so much respect for him but he was favored to win those fights going in... Barrera was not on the level of Duran, Hagler, and Leonard. But, he was favorite to beat Pac... Ledwaba not on there level but ranked #2 at 122 was favored to beat Pac and Pac fought that in 3 weeks notice. Oscar yes not on the level on those ATG's even though people thought he was shot and drained was a favorite to beat Pac. Matter of fact people were pissed on Oscar for picking on Pac... Everybody was considering it a mismatch in Oscar favor. Pac destroyed all this guys even Hatton and Cotto nobody thought Pac was going to do it that easy before hand. But, after the fact people wanted to make excuses on why he did it so easy... And, that is not fair to Pac... My point is I can do that to Hagler but I won't due to the fact that I have such a high respect for the man. But, it is insane to say that Pac does not have a case for the #2 spot... Especially after all the upsets and accomplishments he has...

[Mayabang]

Wow!

Guys, I just wanted to say that I've been reading the entire thread and really really great discussion and very informative. Thanks for a great read!!

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

7 titles and 7 divisions, 4 lineal titles in 4 divisions... I don't see how that can not be that impressive in this day and age since nobody has done it in the last 20-30yrs... lets not act like these weight-classes and titles were not around for the last 20-30yrs. Because they were... And, he was the only one who accomplished it. If it easy then why hasn't anybody else done it? So I don't see how that can not be impressive...

And, lets not forget that Whitaker-Chavez fought at the same catch-weight of 145. Not for no paper title mind you but for the lineal true WW title... Nobody cared about the lineal title being up for grabs at 145 so why do we care so much now for the WBO title to be up for grabs at 145? So IMO that catchweight holds no water...

And, the most underrated stat in all this is that the flyweight division and the featherweight division was around for over a 100yrs so was the lineal belt. Pac is the only fighter ever to win the lineal belts in both weight-class. Again if it so easy and not that impressive then why did nobody else accomplished it in over 100yrs...

And, I don't want to diss Hagler he fought all those ATG's but lets not forget he was the favorite to win all of them... I know for a fact he was a favorite to beat Leonard, people feared for Leonard life, he was a huge favorite over Duran, I think he was the favorite against Hearns but I am not so sure with that one... Not trying to diss Hagler cuz I have so much respect for him but he was favored to win those fights going in... Barrera was not on the level of Duran, Hagler, and Leonard. But, he was favorite to beat Pac... Ledwaba not on there level but ranked #2 at 122 was favored to beat Pac and Pac fought that in 3 weeks notice. Oscar yes not on the level on those ATG's even though people thought he was shot and drained was a favorite to beat Pac. Matter of fact people were pissed on Oscar for picking on Pac... Everybody was considering it a mismatch in Oscar favor. Pac destroyed all this guys even Hatton and Cotto nobody thought Pac was going to do it that easy before hand. But, after the fact people wanted to make excuses on why he did it so easy... And, that is not fair to Pac... My point is I can do that to Hagler but I won't due to the fact that I have such a high respect for the man. But, it is insane to say that Pac does not have a case for the #2 spot... Especially after all the upsets and accomplishments he has...

This was a good post my main beefs with it is three things:

1. With the Flyweight/Featherweight thing. Pac outgrew that weight class so fast that he skipped 2 up to to 122. Im saying its not impressive for him to do that considering how quick he outgrew flyweight. He SHOULDVE been able to do that.

2. The 145 Catchweight Thing: What bothers me about this is that it was uncalled forand done puerly for an unfair advantage. Cotto only took this fight because he was forced by Arum. When Cotto was on that golf course with Oscar he was most likely told if you dont re-up with me you dont get a Pac fight. Cotto sold out for the cash just like JMM did. Also Mosley was avilible and was the Number 1 WW and the man at the weight.

3. The odds thing. In order to make money and a profit odds get swung in one way or another. Just because odds makers (mind you guys trying to make money) doesnt have a fighter favored doesnt take away from his wins. Floyd is favored over Shane but if Floyd wins he still gets credit. Oddsmaker have to make a profit.

[supRa]

u cant f0ck with sweet pea....


zab any1?
(style wise)
zab makes it look nice with his slick style.... nice and crisp