The Wright vs Tito fight kinda put's Bernards win into perspective?

[adeelr]

Hopkins is not a fraud, he will beat Taylor, but Tito should have been better, i want to see a rematch.

[realheavyhands]

robert allen is a beast at middoe he entered the ring at 5'9 174

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

You don't like Bernard. I don't like Bernard. I root vs him everytime he fights. Only difference is you let your dislike of his style cloud your judgement of him. He has fought the best in his weight and he handled them all. Justbecause you don't like the way he fights at his old age, that doesn't mean he isn't great. History will remember him as great regardless of what you think, and rightfully so.

You know what I think you might be on to something there fella.

I think that my diss-like for Hopkins show's a lot and can cloud my judgement from time to time.

In England we have what's called the Manchester United syndrome... I'll explain, Manchester United are a football club (largest in the World - but not the best), and all the time you get "Manchester United are so great - this", and "Machester United are so great - that"... And you start to get pissed off with it all! And you start to question, Why?

It's only when you start to qustion it, that's when you find holes all over the place, and you start to realise that they aren't the best.

Same thing with Bernard Hopkins... However I genuinly believe that if weight was not included - Pound 4 Pound, Bernard Hopkins is NOT the best fighter in the World at the moment. There are far more better fighters, and far more proven fighters... I mean, if you compare the competition faced over the last 4-5yrs with Morales and Hopkins... They're just mixing in a different class. Morales Repeatedly fights P4P fighters over and over again where as Bernard fights - Carl Daniels - Morrad Hakker - Robert Allen - William Sloppy - Howard Eastman etc...

The thing is... (Manchester United syndrome)... If someone keeps telling you how great something is all the time, you end up resenting it!

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

He never said Tito was a fraud, he asked if HOPKINS was.

Martin, Hopkins is probably at the top of my p4p "bore the **** out of me" list. How a giggling granddad who spends 12 rounds running around on his zimmer can be considered a great beats me. People were bigging up his 20th defence but there's a world of difference between "hit and not get hit" and "just run away for 80% of the fight". He's an ass.

I totally agree with that!... I felt cheated when I bought the Eastman/Hopkins fight on PPV.

Before the fight Hopkins said that he'd looked into Eastman's eye's and he knew that Eastman had come to fight...

So instead of fighting he just ran for 12 rounds! Looking like he was scared of getting hit.

I thought to myself, "I've paid to watch the so called P4P best fighter in the World and he didn't even come to fight???" - cheated out of £15.00

And then not long after I saw Morales/Pacquiao and Arce/Hussien on another bill, and I thought these Mexican guy's don't F**k about... They ain't there to look good for the judges, they ain't scared of getting hit... And THEY DEFINATLY CAME TO FIGHT! These guy's are prize fighters, it's built into them and not only do they want nothing more than to win! They wanna win in style, and prove to the other guy and the WORLD that they're the toughest and the No.1 and they go to WAR!

There are so many fighters that are like this, not just Mexicans... Like Corrales/Pacquiao/Calzaghe/Gatti/Tszyu/Cotto and loads more...

But to me it's not just about going to WAR, It's about coming to fight... Knowing that they've gotta fight on their hands and They mean business!

Hopkins doesn't work this way

[TyrantT316]

that is what makes Boxing....all fighters are different...sometimes meaning an exciting clash and sometimes not...Hopkins at this point in his career has a lot at stake and knows the ramifications of a loss...ever since he hit the big stage vs Tito, he has been a lot more cautious especially with the DLH fight and afterwards...

Hopkins is not a ****** man...he has not had the silk sheets life until now...he worked hard in some pretty exciting and tough fights throughout his career...now that he has made it, he doesn't want to mess anything up...look at it this way...

the poor man who worked hard to get where he's gotten is milking every bit of it that he can before someone mugs him...before he loses in the ring and no one will clamour to watch him again...not every fighter will just walk into a dangerous fight and start winging bombs knowing the possibility of getting hurt by just being foolish...Hopkins' style is not that of a Gatti or Morales...Hopkins is a counter puncher...those guys are not...counter punchers to not take the initial lead in fights...

regardless of what one may think of Hopkins, he has come a long way...been through some ups and downs in his career...and wants to make the best of what he has never had before it is time to go back down...Hopkins has not had Hagler, Monzon, Leonard, Robinson, and Hearns in his era...a lot of the knack on some fighters with Hopkins being one of them is that they have not fought many P4P or Legend fighters...well these days it is not a fighter like Hopkins' fault...if those major HOFer/P4P fighters are not in his weight class, then how can he fight them? If Hopkins always keeps himself in shape and would rather dominate his class, why not? Once a fighter moves up a class or two, then people are saying "I wish he would have stayed in one class, he could have dominated." If those HOFer/P4P fighters are smaller weight classes and choose to move up, why NOT fight them especially of the calibur and $$$ of Tito and DLH? Hagler did it and no one rags on him and Hagler LOST! Hopkins is making the smart business decisions. Hopkins fighting the smaller Tito and DLH is nothing new in Boxing. Hopkins beat them, Larry didn't beat Spinks, Hopkins beat them, Hagler didn't beat Leonard, Hopkins beat them, Ruiz didn't beat Jones/Toney. Hopkins won like he was supposed to.

Now that Tito has lost to Winky, I can only see someone who just hates Hopkins or just annoyed with his success as making a post degrading him because of Winky's win. Hopkins beat Tito when Tito was on a roll, fired up, and undefeated. Not many picked Hopkins to win. Hopkins fought his fight AND Tito's in some spurts and won on both occassions. Winky fought his fight and practically shut Tito out after the long layoff.

Hopkins is a great middleweight. Sure not greatest P4P all time because he was not fortunate to have 3-5 HOFers in the middleweight division throughout the prime of his career. But Hopkins worked with what was available to him, beat them (except for Jones and his debut fight at crusier) and grew as a fighter over the year. For those who want to know what type of fighter Hopkins can be when faced with adversity or toughness, watch the first two Allen fights, the two Mercado fights, and the Echols fights. Sure they are not Ray Robinsons, but not many are. They tested Hopkins and Hopkins pulled through.

The man is a fighter. A tough son of a gun. Finally making it to the top and $$$ will make any tough son of a gun slow down a bit and take things as they come. Hopkins never claimed or claims to be an exciting fighter. He doesn't claim to be the fastest or the biggest puncher. He knows he is not fight of the year fighter. But guys, this world is not about EVERYONE being the same. Not everyone is Gatti, Pacman, Morales.

Trust me, Hopkins would rather be in this current position of facing Taylor for big money then possibly Winky, Joe C (if he gets past Lacy), and the Light HW winner, than to have foolishly traded with Tito, Joppy, or Eastman just to please a couple of people and possibly lose. As Hopkins said, "I will not make the same mistake Hagler made vs Leonard". Well Hopkins didn't vs his opponents such as DLH and Hopkins is still at the top of the mountain.

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

TyrantT316 - I totally understand what you're saying man, But to be a true great, and be remembered, you've gotta be in this game for the glory, NOT the money. You've gotta step up and take the challenge. You can only be the best by beating the best.

I have nothing wrong with people staying in their weight class all their career, but if there's no one else around to fight you've gotta go up or down and seek out the top guy's, as MANY MANY others have done.

I have SOOOO much more respect for a guy like De La Hoya for at least trying to go up to 160lb and win. He showed that he's not scared, and that he's got a lot of heart. He looked so much smaller in the ring than Hopkins... And he lost, so what. He had the courage to take a gamble and try.

Hopkins wants the big money like the Tito's and De La Hoya's... And he still doesn't understand why He doesn't get it. It's BECAUSE he doesn't take risks, BECAUSE he doesn't take a gamble.

He fights for money not for glory... There's nothing wrong with that, but you'll never go down as a great, and be remembered that way.

Too Cautious.

[TyrantT316]

TyrantT316 - I totally understand what you're saying man, But to be a true great, and be remembered, you've gotta be in this game for the glory, NOT the money. You've gotta step up and take the challenge. You can only be the best by beating the best.

I have nothing wrong with people staying in their weight class all their career, but if there's no one else around to fight you've gotta go up or down and seek out the top guy's, as MANY MANY others have done.

I have SOOOO much more respect for a guy like De La Hoya for at least trying to go up to 160lb and win. He showed that he's not scared, and that he's got a lot of heart. He looked so much smaller in the ring than Hopkins... And he lost, so what. He had the courage to take a gamble and try.

Hopkins wants the big money like the Tito's and De La Hoya's... And he still doesn't understand why He doesn't get it. It's BECAUSE he doesn't take risks, BECAUSE he doesn't take a gamble.

He fights for money not for glory... There's nothing wrong with that, but you'll never go down as a great, and be remembered that way.

Too Cautious.

I understand your position as well...I just think back to Hopkins' early part of his career...he came from pretty much nothing and Boxing was his outlet...so he fought and fought to get his life together...not out of greed...now that he has hit the big time and is smart to realize opportunity that he never had, he is taking advantage of it...as a Boxing fan, yes I would like to see Hopkins in another dogfight as early in his career at 168 or 175...as a realistic human, I also realize he wants to milk what he never had in his career and life in general...

can you imagine the heat he would have taken if he turned down ODLH or Tito?...gave up his titles to not fight Tito in that tournament...

what Hopkins HAS done in his career solidifies his greatness...people need to remember that there is more than one level of greatness...if a fighter like Hopkins is called great, that doesn't always mean people are calling him a Robinson or Ali...if going undefeated for 11+ years with 20 title defenses, beating two HOFers regardless of size (Hagler did it, Larry did it), and still dominating at 40+ years old isn't at least the LEAST level of greatness...then what is? many might as well said his career was for nothing...

1)Lewis
2)Holyfield
3)Tyson

you can break greatness into three parts...Hopkins is at LEAST a 2-3...would be a 1 if he had the level of comp at 160 in his era as past fighters did

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

1)Lewis
2)Holyfield
3)Tyson

Yeah but these three were heavyweights... They didn't have the option of going up or down (in Holyfield's case after 20 fights).

I don't diss-agree with Hopkins fighting De La Hoya or Trinidad even though they were smaller... It makes perfect financial and career sense, And was definatly a good move for him!

The problem I have with Hopkins is that when he's finished fighting them guy's he goes back to fighting Carl Daniels - Morrad Hakker - William Sloppy - Robert Allen - Howard Eastman... He doesn't seem to want to show how great he can be by then moving up and fighting the super-middleweight Champion or the light-heavyweight champion to show everyone how good he can be.

He just sit on it, waiting for another welterweight champion to decide to move up in weight again. (thus looking for the little guy/risk-free fights).

I think Hopkins is a good fighter, but we'll never know how good because he never showed us. If he went up to super-middleweight and beat Calzaghe I would shut the F**k up! And the only things you'd hear coming from my mouth would be praise for the guy.

But I know Hopkins is never gonna take the risk and go up and fight Joe Calzaghe - For two reasons. Calzaghe WOULD be a very hard nights work!... Calzaghe's bigger, he hits like a kick from a mule, and Calzaghe will be looking to take Hopkins head off from round 1 through to round 12. Hopkins Will get hit a lot in that fight.

And the other reason would be, Hopkins doesn't want to get hurt... He doesn't want to get hit. He's happy fighting the smaller guy's where he can dictate the pace and keep them off him because he's bigger.

[paul750]

You know, I disagree with that. I'm sure no one would deny that Ali was a fine exponent of the sweet science. Was Ali boring?

Mind you, I heard him say the other day that he would have gladly traded the Frazier trilogy off his resume for the Allen trilogy. "It was the greatest trilogy of all tahms" he was heard to have said, still enthralled by such a spectacle.

sometimes people wear rose tinted glasses were ali is concerned, sure he may have had wars with frazier which were truly amazing, but he was also involed in a lot of negative fights, which some people may consider boring, there are very few fighters who have wars in every fight, certainly not ''boxers'' like ali

[xKillingJokex]

People seem to forget that Hopkins KNOCKED out Tito and..Wright didnt...meaning i think..Wright is a better boxer..but Hopkins..is almost as good and can adjust to Wright's style better than anyone..and he has more POWER