Toney's body work on Ruiz

[Bozo_no no]

i agree, allthough he didnt used to be and aint naturaly hw its ridicouls to say that the new wba hw champ at 233 aint heavy.

Byrd aint more than about 210.

Toney was 200lbs when he played football before starting boxing.

But that doesn't really matter. He's over 200lbs now, has a Heavyweight title, and is a Heavyweight.

[Bozo_no no]

Toney is a heavyweight in that he technically weighed in over 200 lbs but his natural weight is light heavy at the highest. Even at cruiserweight he was soft. He has put on some muscle and a lot of fat, but he has a middleweight's frame.

So by that logic, Byrd isn't a heavyweight either.

That makes two non-Heavyweights holding Heavyweight titles.

They're Heavyweights now.

Making the weight, and being successful at it makes you a Heavyweight.

[Kid Achilles]

"Making the weight, and being successful at it makes you a Heavyweight."

In Toney's case it makes him an extremely talented middleweight who is good enough to challenge a very weak heavyweight division. No, Toney is not a natural heavyweight. He does not have Holyfield's or Michale Moorer's frame size. If Manny Pacquiao bulked up to 150 lbs it would not make him a natural middleweight, regardless of how muscular he was.

[Bozo_no no]

"Making the weight, and being successful at it makes you a Heavyweight."

In Toney's case it makes him an extremely talented middleweight who is good enough to challenge a very weak heavyweight division. No, Toney is not a natural heavyweight. He does not have Holyfield's or Michale Moorer's frame size. If Manny Pacquiao bulked up to 150 lbs it would not make him a natural middleweight, regardless of how muscular he was.

I didn't say "Natural" Heavyweight.

He's a Heavyweight.

If Pacquiao moved up to 154 and won a few fights and then a title, he'd be a Jr Midleweight.

Again, by your logic, Chris Byrd is not a Heavyweight, and he's been holding a title there for years.

Holyfield also isn't a natural Heavyweight. He juiced it up to fight at heavy. Would you say he isn't a Heavyweight?

Again, the bottom line is that if you're over 200lbs (as Toney is) and you're fighting and winning a title at Heavyweight, you're a Heavyweight.

Toney may not be a natural Heavyweight, but he's a Heavyweight now.

[Kid Achilles]

Holyfield is much bigger than Toney. I would consider him a natural heavyweight who needed some help in filling out. Just look at the photo. The guy has a big heavyweight torso. That's not just muscle. It's the skeleton that makes a natural heavyweight a natural heavyweight. It's all about the bone structure.

[Warden11]

What question?

My mistake I thought you were asking if they made an impact.

[pug1986]

someone elaborate please on the ketchup on Toney's gloves, how is that supposed to upset Ruiz psychologically?