Toney Ud!

[!! Mr. Soprano]

I did. You didn't. Again, since it didn't sink in the other 5 times, 3 of the 4 belts were taken from the people who were considered to be the best in the division at the time. One of the 3 had TWO wins over an all-time great fighter in Tommy Hearns.

Very few fighters with lengthy careers have a resume full of great wins over great fighters. If we base the value of a fighter on the number of bums on their resume, then both the Klits are more worthless to boxing than Toney. Neither of them has a career-defining fight that goes in the win column. Both their career definers have come in defeat. Little Klit to Sanders and Big Klit to Lewis. At least Big Klit's loss defined him as a warrior, almost making up for quitting in the corner in a fight he couldn't have lost with one hand.

Well Martin, "since it didn't sink in the other 5 times", Toney's best opposition, you so called "champions" were no bodies
Vasily Jirov, Iran Barkley, Michael Nunn
So what if Barkley beat up Hearns? He should be in the hall of fame too?

That's what I keep on telling you.. There is no way you should be in a HOF because of 1 or 2 good wins. You have to be a legend! And Toney is no where near it!

Man, just give it up

[!! Mr. Soprano]

Good Night!

[vB Martin]

Well Martin, "since it didn't sink in the other 5 times", Toney's best opposition, you so called "champions" were no bodies
Vasily Jirov, Iran Barkley, Michael Nunn
So what if Barkley beat up Hearns? He should be in the hall of fame too?

That's what I keep on telling you.. There is no way you should be in a HOF because of 1 or 2 good wins. You have to be a legend! And Toney is no where near it!

Man, just give it up

By your standard, people like Kid Gavilin and Saad Muhammed wouldn't be Hall of Famers. They are, and deservedly so, and they didn't accomplish anywhere near what Toney has in their careers.

Oh well. I hope I never have to live up to your standards. I hope you don't, either.

[!! Mr. Soprano]

By your standard, people like Kid Gavilin and Saad Muhammed wouldn't be Hall of Famers. They are, and deservedly so, and they didn't accomplish anywhere near what Toney has in their careers.

Oh well. I hope I never have to live up to your standards. I hope you don't, either.

"My standards" ??
What are my standards?? Now you're just throwing words, 'cause you have nothing to say..
When did I ever define "my standards"

And where did you find that Saad Muhammed is in the HOF?
What list are you looking at??

[Kid Achilles]

Getting into the HOF is VERY easy. Toney could retire now and get in. All you need to do is either be a heavyweight champion at all (I'm pretty sure Leon Spinks is even in) or if you're a lighter weight hold your belt for a few years and have some memorable fights. Beating Ruiz, (who is likely a future hall of famer himself) has guaranteed Toney a spot.

[!! Mr. Soprano]

Getting into the HOF is VERY easy. Toney could retire now and get in. All you need to do is either be a heavyweight champion at all (I'm pretty sure Leon Spinks is even in) or if you're a lighter weight hold your belt for a few years and have some memorable fights. Beating Ruiz, (who is likely a future hall of famer himself) has guaranteed Toney a spot.

Whoa, I didn't expect that one from you...

Ruiz is likely to be a hall of famer? ROTFL!!!!!!!
WHAT ARE YOU ALL SMOCKING??

How about it, I'll start a thread.. I want to hear other people's opinions on this!

[MetalVomit]

We have a new phony as a champion now. Before it was Ruiz, now we have a 5'9 overweight middleweight, this is going to make the heavyweight division look even worse.

Toney is at least a boxing great, blown up middleweight or not. Ruiz has been defending his title by illegally winning with his clinching. I've said it before, if Ruiz doesnt illegally hug his opponent, he gets outclassed. That's exactly what happened last night.

[Kid Achilles]

Why not? When Jess Willard and Leon Spinks and Ingemar Johansson are there, why not Ruiz? Ruiz is a stretch and was originally a joke on my part. But it seems that if you are heavyweight and you've beaten a lot of top opposition, you will probably get in. The HOF has been diluted with Willards and the like for years now.

Edited: Apparently Leon Spinks is not in the IBHOF YET. But I expect him to get inducted any year now.

[vB Martin]

"My standards" ??
What are my standards?? Now you're just throwing words, 'cause you have nothing to say..
When did I ever define "my standards"

Right here:

There is no way you should be in a HOF because of 1 or 2 good wins. You have to be a legend!

And where did you find that Saad Muhammed is in the HOF?
What list are you looking at??

The International Boxing Hall of Fame Website.

[vB Martin]

In fairness, I think you're misundertsanding the point of The Hall of Fame. If it were to enshrine only Legends, it would be a bare place, filled mostly with lower weight class fighters from the 70's and 80's and a few Heavies from days long gone.

The point is to honor fighters who accomplished great things in their careers, who brought us unforgettable fights. They didn't have to be the best ever, or even the best of their times.

Saad Muhammed definitely deserves his spot in there. Sadly, I'm old enough to remember his fights. He epitomizes what a warrior should be. He never quit. When he was out on his feet, instincts kicked in and he fought like the devil himself. He is, in my mind, one of the best light-heavyweights ever, everything that Roy Jones wishes he could have been. Actually, scratch that. Roy would never engage in battle like Matthew did.
I never saw a Saad Muhammad fight that wasn't memorable. He deserves to be there.

Anyway, I've been pissy enough for 10 people in the last coupla days. My blood sugar is high, and I apologize if I've been too bitchy to you in this thread.