..This STEROIDS Issue Really Doesn't Matter The Way You Think It Does...

[THe TRiNiTY]

great read....

manny taking the tests won't shut up those who accused him anyways. they are already treating him guilty where all evidence point to him being innocent.

i see similarities in this situation as the hatton fight, where manny rejected 50-50 deal. a lot of people argue that it is fair, that manny should take it. he got a lot of heat from it. threatened to pull out of the fight. it was even pronounced dead. lots of people calling him a fraud, a *****, a diva, etc. eventually, he got a 52-48 cut on it and he agreed. not that much, and probably wasn't worth all the trouble.

but it wasn't about the money. he believed he truly deserved more than ricky. he felt that he, as the #1 fighter at that time deserves some kind of respect. he was willing to risk one of his biggest pay days for what he believes is fair.

assuming he is innocent, he could have just taken the tests, fight, and get paid. but the other side have been spewing baseless accusations at him even before the negotiations started. like the hatton fight, he is willing to walk away from a massive pay day for what he believes is right. he believes he was treated unfairly, his legacy being questioned, and basically was called a cheater, hence the lawsuit.

i admire his principles on this issue and has become a bigger fan of his cause of his actions. it may deprive me of one of the fights i am truly excited to see, but him refusing to be subjected to baseless claims has earned my respect.

could he be cheating all this time? i doubt it. i would be shocked if he was on something despite some the people's claims out there. still, if he was proven to be cheating, i am also willing to take back all what i said.

Oh, I would be far more shocked if he were found to be a cheater, but it doesn't take away the point. You know? You are still INNOCENT until proven guilty, not the other way around. Not to mention that some EVIDENCE would be nice. Which, NO ONE on the opposing side of the Manny is clean argument is able to come up with.

They try to shut down logical arguments with, "Take the test, case closed." But life doesn't work that way, it's far more complex. Sometimes in good ways, other times not so much.

In this case, it's about a principal. Regardless, however, of if he's clean or not, unless you have LEGITIMATE reason to treat him like a cheater, you have no MORAL RIGHT to do such a thing.

This would be the equivalent of your girlfriend having NO REASON to assume you've cheated, yet requiring you to take a lie detector test to prove your innocence. I understand that most *****-whipped guys would do it just to prove their case. However, some would see that for what it is. Insecurity and bull****.

In this case, it's much of the same. If people really believe that Manny HAS to have cheated to accomplish what he has, they have some serious insecurity issues. To think that someone who has accomplished so much to bother them to the point that they think he has to have been cheating, is actually a little sad.

Regardless, if he did it, then so be it. I'm not claiming he did or not. I'm stating that the evidence points against the idea of him cheating AT THIS POINT.

EVIDENCE, not su****ion or speculation.

[nailzfan]

I didn't have any serious thoughts about Manny being a juicer before all of this, and if someone would have told me months ago that the money split and the weight would be agreed upon quickly and the only thing stopping this fight was drug testing. Then I would've said STFU. I'm sorry, and I have no idea of Manny's PED use or not, but it has certainly not made him look that great.

[S.G.]

Evidence is in Pacquiao's favor. He's never failed a drug test.

Any evidence that damages his claim? NOT su****ion. Evidence.

That's not what I said... I said the next step after su****ion is the collection of evidence. You don't have to collect evidence to justify su****ion; you have to collect evidence to ultimately prove or disprove allegations.

We're still in the su****ion stage with a limited scope of the situation and as such it's silly to commit yourself to either possible conclusion; but Pacquiao's team's refusal to give us a means to resolve this only serves to add fuel to the fire - it's hard to view it any other way. If someone shows a reluctance to provide evidence the logical assumption is that the outcome of the evidence gathering would be bad for them, it's really that simple.

If Pacquiao is clean his camp have had a huge common sense breakdown and really made a mess of things in this whole ordeal, to the extent that maybe he should think twice about letting these people publicly speak on his behalf in future.

On the subject of his prior testing, while it's comforting to hear he tested clean, it's not really relevent to the issue of random blood testing - a method that can unearth a lot of stuff that can easily bypass the scheduled urine testing that he's faced previously, and even work as a preventative measure as opposed to just being a means to catching someone red handed.

[-The Glove-]

Couldn't have said it any better. The haters will always hate. Even with all the possibilities you listed in article as a response, some Mayflower still has the nerve to say," Take the test then if you're not a cheat!" Bro are you ******! CAn you not read? Stop looking at this situation as a fanboy and look at it as a man! You accuse me of cheating, literally or subliminally, I'd tell you to eat an Oscar Meyer weiner and stick Mayflowers in between your buns!

[aether]

Oh, I would be far more shocked if he were found to be a cheater, but it doesn't take away the point. You know? You are still INNOCENT until proven guilty, not the other way around. Not to mention that some EVIDENCE would be nice. Which, NO ONE on the opposing side of the Manny is clean argument is able to come up with.

They try to shut down logical arguments with, "Take the test, case closed." But life doesn't work that way, it's far more complex. Sometimes in good ways, other times not so much.

In this case, it's about a principal. Regardless, however, of if he's clean or not, unless you have LEGITIMATE reason to treat him like a cheater, you have no MORAL RIGHT to do such a thing.

This would be the equivalent of your girlfriend having NO REASON to assume you've cheated, yet requiring you to take a lie detector test to prove your innocence. I understand that most *****-whipped guys would do it just to prove their case. However, some would see that for what it is. Insecurity and bull****.

In this case, it's much of the same. If people really believe that Manny HAS to have cheated to accomplish what he has, they have some serious insecurity issues. To think that someone who has accomplished so much to bother them to the point that they think he has to have been cheating, is actually a little sad.

Regardless, if he did it, then so be it. I'm not claiming he did or not. I'm stating that the evidence points against the idea of him cheating AT THIS POINT.

EVIDENCE, not su****ion or speculation.

i agree with you completely. this has been my position on the issue all along.

i wouldn't mind manny sucking it up and taking the ****** tests, fight and get a huge payday.

but i definitely see where manny is coming from. it isn't about the tests. he was open to do the stricter testing. it is about the principle behind it.

he would have never had been asked to go through the additional tests if floyd sr. didn't come out with his baseless accusations in the first place. he was basically being treated like a cheater the moment they proposed stricter testing procedures. and now, people say he has no right to even question such terms.

now they say the lawsuit is a bit over board, when in fact he would have never been put in this position if floyd sr. haven't said anything demeaning to his name. he said people come up to him and ask if he was doing steroids. imagine how he feels.

manny has the right to refuse any additional, never-been-used-before tests being imposed on him. there is absolutely no proof of him being nothing but clean. he still has the benefit of the doubt despite what any "drug experts" say. he doesn't have the burden of proof.

[-The Glove-]

That's not what I said... I said the next step after su****ion is the collection of evidence. You don't have to collect evidence to justify su****ion; you have to collect evidence to ultimately prove or disprove allegations.

We're still in the su****ion stage with a limited scope of the situation and as such it's silly to commit yourself to either possible conclusion; but Pacquiao's team's refusal to give us a means to resolve this only serves to add fuel to the fire - it's hard to view it any other way. If someone shows a reluctance to provide evidence the logical assumption is that the outcome of the evidence gathering would be bad for them, it's really that simple.

If Pacquiao is clean his camp have had a huge common sense breakdown and really made a mess of things in this whole ordeal, to the extent that maybe he should think twice about letting these people publicly speak on his behalf in future.

On the subject of his prior testing, while it's comforting to hear he tested clean, it's not really relevent to the issue of random blood testing - a method that can unearth a lot of stuff that can easily bypass the scheduled urine testing that he's faced previously, and even work as a preventative measure as opposed to just being a means to catching someone red handed.

Can you be any more misinformed? PAC has never refused to do the tests. I repeat NEVER has he said "I won't be blood tested!" The main issue at hand, if you've been following at all, is the insistence on using the USADA. and don't tell me they're the only ones that can do it right. Cause for one it's the same agency that tested Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery, who we all know later was outed as cheats. And ODLH has ties to Tygart who is the CEO of the USADA. now would you wanna get tested by the opponents choice of agencies who has ties to their camp? Hell no. Please come up with something intelligent for once Mayflowers!

[THe TRiNiTY]

That's not what I said... I said the next step after su****ion is the collection of evidence. You don't have to collect evidence to justify su****ion; you have to collect evidence to ultimately prove or disprove allegations.

However, the su****ion is unwarranted. Therefore, no REAL evidence is needed to begin with. What brought this to light wouldn't even allow a case to be brought to court. It's the insecure ramblings of a former crackhead (this is how it would be looked at in court, not just my actual opinion), that happens to be the father of the guy that is the only close competition to the pound for pound throne. I repeat, this wouldn't even be brought to court. Not to mention that the su****ion isn't even SOLID to begin with. The argument is actually pathetic to begin with. There is nothing there. you CAN turn down someones idea of proof and still be innocent. Very easily, actually.

We're still in the su****ion stage with a limited scope of the situation and as such it's silly to commit yourself to either possible conclusion; but Pacquiao's team's refusal to give us a means to resolve this only serves to add fuel to the fire - it's hard to view it any other way. If someone shows a reluctance to provide evidence the logical assumption is that the outcome of the evidence gathering would be bad for them, it's really that simple.

Actually, it's not that simple. I'd show reluctance if I was FORCED, essentially, to take a drug test, and I KNOW for a fact I haven't done ANY form of drugs. That's the REASON I'd be hesitant to begin with. I'm not guilty and I haven't done ANYTHING that should warrant this act. I shouldn't be treated as a guilty man. The closest you can come to SERIOUS su****ion is the fact that HIS TEAM refused to allow the testing. But that happened AFTER they went ahead with this, WITHOUT proper cause. And as I've stated, due to the past THAT WE KNOW of Manny Pacquiao, any way you slice it, he shouldn't of had to be brought to this point in the first place.

If Pacquiao is clean his camp have had a huge common sense breakdown and really made a mess of things in this whole ordeal, to the extent that maybe he should think twice about letting these people publicly speak on his behalf in future.

I disagree. They allowed him to stand by his honor and personal beliefs. More professional athletes should be so brave.

On the subject of his prior testing, while it's comforting to hear he tested clean, it's not really relevent to the issue of random blood testing - a method that can unearth a lot of stuff that can easily bypass the scheduled urine testing that he's faced previously, and even work as a preventative measure as opposed to just being a means to catching someone red handed.

While I agree that it has it's advantages, it doesn't make bringing it up ONLY in his fight against Manny Pacquiao ethically right or wrong. AT ALL. That implies something. And that something is that Mayweather feels Pacquiao is a higher risk. A feeling that I feel is unfair. Manny has no reason to allow people to determine how or if he should or shouldn't try to prove his innocence. If someone comes up with even a HINT of some form of POTENTIAL evidence, then he should be tested. However, throughout this entire thread, NONE has been provided.

I'm not taking a side in this argument. I don't know. I actually don't care in some ways. But as a man of principals that he truly respects, I understand a man concern for potentially compromising them. I wouldn't risk that. I wouldn't be able to live with myself. If it comes out that this isn't his concern, it's getting caught that worries him, so be it. I doubt that I've mentioned that he did or didn't do it since this scandal broke. And if I have, I will state that I don't know. I DON'T KNOW. I do know that if he is innocent, testing wont solve the problem he will continue to have with detractors and he'll continue to be accused by them.

For the record, his handlers are fine with random, and more extensive testing. But they wont fold to GBP idea of the USADA. I assume it's for the fact that they can't concede too much as a company, that company being Top Rank. They have to have a say in the manner to allow a 'level playing field.'

[NYU Alum.]

CALDEROWNZ,

The keyword in your point is "Priniciple"(and we're on the same page on this one). But, what is puzzling to me, and made me question about PAC is his responses to this type of drug-testing ie I had a nightmare as a child, it might hamper my performance(he knows his body more than anybody else), why doesn't he just flat-out say that this is not a matter of not wanting to take this type of drug test and just say that it's base out of principle ?

[aether]

CALDEROWNZ,

The keyword in your point is "Priniciple"(and we're on the same page on this one). But, what is puzzling to me, and made me question about PAC is his responses to this type of drug-testing ie I had a nightmare as a child, it might hamper my performance(he knows his body more than anybody else), why doesn't he just flat-out say that this is not a matter of not wanting to take this type of drug test and just say that it's base out of principle ?

this is just me,

but i think that he truly wanted to take the fight. he was willing to compromise, to take the additional tests. however, when he felt that he was being already treated a cheater, and make it seem like he has no choice but to bend over completely or he would be perceived as such, he was pissed. he didn't deserve that.

he was willing to undergo the additional tests that he didn't have to in the first place. he was already bending more than he should have, and they had the nerve to say they won't compromise on it.

again, i am working on the assumption that manny is clean. it is only right cause that is what actual evidence has shown.

manny is right. he shouldn't be the first one to be subjected to such tests cause there is absolutely no basis of him being a cheater. it started from his opponent's dad, someone that he was contemplation on suing even before the talks for this fight started.

[menoari]

CALDEROWNZ,

The keyword in your point is "Priniciple"(and we're on the same page on this one). But, what is puzzling to me, and made me question about PAC is his responses to this type of drug-testing ie I had a nightmare as a child, it might hamper my performance(he knows his body more than anybody else), why doesn't he just flat-out say that this is not a matter of not wanting to take this type of drug test and just say that it's base out of principle ?

IMO Pac was and still is ok with additional test, he may have been confused, misinformed or just plain assumed that the additional test/s would incorporate his condition of no blood being drawn "near" fight time (everyone seems to have different opinions on what "near" means). We might not agree with Pac's reasons for not wanting blood drawn around fight time but the fact remains that he is perfectly entitled to have that belief and act accordingly.

When the condition mentioned above became the equivalent of an iceberg sinking this "titanic" fight, IMO he got pissed with the fact that despite his agreement to additional testing his one condition to the blood testing was being spun around as some sign of guilt for taking PEDs. The rest is history and continues to unfold...

I presume that the issue going around is real and not some innovative PR strategy for the fight ...