The thing about Khan we seem to be forgetting...

[aristotlemoses]

I wish he would forget about Hatton and worry about the other good fighters at 140 though to be honest.

[hammerhiem]

i'm a naz fan so i should know a thing or two about ****iness and amirs is lightyears out of that league! i never understood how a hungry young fighter claiming that he wants to fight so and so and achieve this and that could have his statements misconstrued so badly.

Amir's problem is sometimes he act's like he's already beaten so and so and acheived this and that already.

I blame Warren.

But then i hate Warren.

[PittyPat]

Maidana is crap, but the Khan fight would be interesting and is rightly high in demand because it'd more or less be Khan v Prescott II

I reckon Maidana is ever so slightly more versatile than Prescott, and can box better - after all, I had him beating Kotelnik by a fair auld margin.

Prescott has looked absolutely ghastly in his last 3 outings, with his wild swinging overhands and haymakers. :shk1: He desperately needs a brutal KO win over somebody soon, otherwise he'll fall off the radar forever.

I rate khan on what he is right now, not what he might be in 5 years time.

All good and well, but a rather narrow-minded outlook. Isn't rating a fighter on potential future achievements all part of them being a prospect and generating interest for future bouts?

Right now he's a paper champ with a weakish resume

So he should've continued to fight more stiffs in the UK - Chavez Jr. style - and not grabbed the (albeit Warren-influenced) opportunity to get a world title and be propelled into the big picture?

with weaknesses that can be exploited.

Pretty much every single fighter has weaknesses which can be exploited - from Pacquiao, to Wlad, to Dawson, to Darchinyan. In Khan's case, it just so happens to create an extra bit of tension for his fights because there's that perpetual "chin issue". It's excitement, which boxing needs right now.

Age has nothing to do with his place in boxing NOW and shouldn't either.

Are those blinkers on tight enough?

Now if want to talk about potential, sure fine i'll discuss age and improvements he can make but don't spin me a yarn about him being better than he really is based on his age, his age won't stop him getting sat on his arse if you put him in over his head.

There's no need for me to spin you a yarn, because I don't claim to know any better than you or anyone else does about what the future holds for Khan. All we can do is wait and see - but evidently some choose to be narrow-minded about it and dismiss him as "hype" after only 23 fights.

Goodness knows what we'd be saying about Pacquiao if people had decided to write him off as a "chinny hypejob bum" after his KOs at the hands of Torrecampo and Sangsurat early in his career. :eyeroll:

[Shadows]

I've got nothing against Khan, but I really hope he doesn't fight Hatton and JMM. IMO, there's no need for it.

We talked about this earlier PittyPat, 140 is a pretty good division and he should really be up for fighting the other young top contenders and titlists.

As far as Maidana goes, Khan may be more skilled, quicker, etc., but perhaps unorthodox brawlers are a style problem for him. After all, it was for Vernon Forrest. You could make the argument that the KO was pre-Roach, but I'd still like to see that fight.

[hammerhiem]

All good and well, but a rather narrow-minded outlook. Isn't rating a fighter on potential future achievements all part of them being a prospect and generating interest for future bouts?

What's a fighter possible future achivements got to do with how good he is now?

So he should've continued to fight more stiffs in the UK - Chavez Jr. style - and not grabbed the (albeit Warren-influenced) opportunity to get a world title and be propelled into the big picture?

You make out like being a Paper champ is a bad thing. My world not black and white, theres plenty of shades of gray in which fighter can be good and not be ATG.

But thats what he is, he holds and alphabetti spaggetti title and is not anything like the best in his division ergo he's a paper champ.

In this boxing fans world there are the following levels of fighters

Bum: the guys who you see on the first 1-10 of people resume such as ***an, they are basicly punchbags for new fighters to test their level against.

Journeymen: Guys who have 20ish fights 50/50-75/25 records never really fight above regional title level, guy's like Gomez

Good Journeymen: these are the guy who let you know if a fighter is going to make it to title level, if you don't take them seriously they can make life very very difficult. guy's like Ben Tackie, these guy often have very good early careers but never make it at world level. I honestly think thats where prescott is going to end up and what Salita is.

Contenders: the class of fighter that either becomes a world level or good journeymen fighters, fighters like this might even grab a belt in an upset and then fade away getting beat by the top level fighters, luis Collazo is a good example of this

Paper champs: the young upstart or the contender in his prime who is at the pinnacle of his career, holds a belt but no one really thinks he's the top 5 of the division, This is where Khan and people like Berto are, and other like Erdei, Valuev and Clinton Woods

World level: the like of Hatton, Calzaghe, Tarver, Darchinyan, Cotto top of the division argued to be top P4P fighters but never really able to beat that level.

Elite: the Pac's, PBF, RJJ, Hopkins of this world spend their career the people who end up on the ATG bandwagon.

Are those blinkers on tight enough?

gee i'm sorry i deal with reality not pipe dreams, Khans resume isn't great and he hasn't achieved alot right now. In 5 years he might have a great resume and be top 5 P4P i'll call him a great fighter then, don't expect me to do it now in the hope he might.

Goodness knows what we'd be saying about Pacquiao if people had decided to write him off as a "chinny hypejob bum" after his KOs at the hands at Torrecampo and Sangsurat.

I don't remember anyone claiming that Pac could beat Eric Morales back in 99 like people are saying about khan beating some P4P fighters now. the dude just beat a nobody and we get threads about him fighting (and destroying) JMM and Hatton.

[NYU Alum.]

People overrate the age thing

Floyd, Manny, Oscar, Corrales, Judah, Hamed etc had all achieved more than Amir at 23

I just don't think he's all that great, he'll be a good champ but not a P4P champ or ATG like some are predicting

It doesn't matter, atleast Khan is willing to come here and test himself(I can't say the same for Calzaghe and his precious undefeated record)

And no, I don't think people overrate the age thing. Everyone matures at a different rate(physically/emotionally/mentally) and there are other factors as well to consider for ones early success.

Great post by the thread starter.

[PittyPat]

What's a fighter possible future achivements got to do with how good he is now?

Granted, they might not be linked at present, but I don't think there's any harm in speculation. You've obviously taken exception to doing so in Khan's case, but no worries. There's 6.7 billion of us with differing views, after all.

Some of us are excited about the things he may do in the future, whilst others just want to stick to the present and dwell on his current shortcomings (whether skills- or resume-wise). This can be applied to any boxing prospect. It's like dreamers vs live-for-the-day types, I guess.

You make out like being a Paper champ is a bad thing.

From your tone when initially posting the paper champ comment, it sounded like you were making it out to be a bad, undesirable thing. Since I seem to have misinterpreted that, I'll gladly step back.

he holds and alphabetti spaggetti title and is not anything like the best in his division ergo he's a paper champ.

Bradley, Urango, Alexander and Pacquiao all hold alphabet titles at 140 too. Sure, Khan may not yet be on their level, but I don't see anything that should hold him back from fighting them (except Pacquiao) very soon after a Maidana encounter - with Bradley and Alexander being the best and worst beltholders, respectively.

gee i'm sorry i deal with reality not pipe dreams, Khans resume isn't great and he hasn't achieved alot right now. In 5 years he might have a great resume and be top 5 P4P i'll call him a great fighter then, don't expect me to do it now in the hope he might.

Nobody is expecting you to call him P4P or ATG at this time. Anyone who does so is either a hardcore nuthugger or otherwise delusional. But to even think positively about what he might go on to do... well, it's obviously a big ask from some folks. Being realistic is all good and well, but sometimes having an outlook on the bigger picture can be more fun. Each to their own.

the dude just beat a nobody and we get threads about him fighting (and destroying) JMM and Hatton.

Not that I'm subscribing to such outlandish views - count me out of that madness. I don't wish to see Hatton in any boxing ring ever again, and frankly I have no idea what I'd like to see Marquez do.

[Kalion]

The about Khan we seem to be forgetting most...



You can Lift weights to make you stronger.
You can run miles to increase you stanmina.
You can do all types of exercises to increase you hand speed.
But you cant do much of anything about your chin.

Even in his own mind he is 1 punch from being KO'd.

[PittyPat]

The about Khan we seem to be forgetting most...



You can Lift weights to make you stronger.
You can run miles to increase you stanmina.
You can do all types of exercises to increase you hand speed.

But you cant do much of anything about your chin. Even in his own mind he is 1 punch from being KO'd.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees, of course(!)



Chinny ol' Pacquiao, eh? He never amounted to anything after that brutal loss, the poor kid.

[K-Nan]

... is that the lad is only 23, and potentially has well over a decade's worth of shelf life in him. He has so many years to achieve things, and he's already on the right track. Haters can futilely clutch at straws and bring up his shortcomings all they want, but this kid clearly wants to fight everyone (disregard the Warren factor just for this instance), and seems ready to make the step and fight in the States.

A certain Joe Calzaghe, on the other hand, hijacked a single belt for a decade, waited until his late 30s to make the Stateside jump, and even then only fought 2 old men. So already I respect Khan far more than Calzaghe, because of how he's going about his career. He did the Olympics, had his share of youthful and "chinny" outings before getting trounced, and has since proactively sought to make a difference by hiring Roach and taking his boxing more seriously.

Really, what's there to hate anymore? He's amazingly fast, has an exciting and "risky" presence in the ring (the chin issue), and he now seems to be developing real power as he matures. He's also an excellent role model for kids because he's going about things the decent way by staying involved with youth activities, and not blowing up like Hatton or aggressively spouting ****y religious tripe like Hamed.

I consider myself very fortunate to have followed his professional career from day one, watching him develop his craft as a fighter, and not be rushed into things. There's something new in every fight, and I believe he is a worthy addition to the LWW division over in the States. Isn't this what boxing is about - young prospects who learn, make mistakes, have success, become champion and forge out a lengthy career for themselves? At least it's more respectable (and interesting) than Chavez Jr.

And as far as haters go, I can always refer to these 2 posts I made a while ago, which still hold plenty of ground...

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5743739&postcount=5

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5743778&highlight=hypejob#post5743778

He just can't please everyone, but the believers know the truth. :smile1:

With high achievements, you get high expectations. Sometimes unreasonable ones. I think that's the case with Khan. He's a gold medalist, and that put him in with some legendary company.