The Thinking Man’s Thread on Manny v Floyd .....

**mushahadeen** · 12-08-2009, 05:58 PM

I can tell based on your distaste for using paragraphs and the general "ransom letter" feel of your post that you are a "thinking man".

**shadeyfizzle** · 12-08-2009, 06:09 PM

Floyd will not be able to counter Pacquiao as effectively as he has everyone else he's ever faced. The reason is simple. Floyd is a fundamental fighter and Pac is anything but.

Floyd relies on basic boxing principles to succeed. Make his opponent miss and take advantage when they are off balance and out of position. But that wont work on Pacquiao because of his growth since the 2nd Marquez fight. He no longer loads up looking for 1 hit kill shots so he is never truly off balance. Pacquiao still has the ability to throw and land effectively in positions where no other fighter in the world would be able to cover up and defend...let alone launch an offensive.

**S A M U R A I** · 12-08-2009, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by tacoboxer

Don’t reply to this tread if you can’t form a reasonable counter argument.... all this Manny destroying Floyd, blah,blah,blah..... Floyd easily handling Manny blah, blah,blah, IT'S ALL BS!!
If you don’t have enough smarts to give each fighter the credit they deserve for their body of work inside the ring... then keep your thoughts to yourself!
I see Manny carrying the fight early like a lot of quality fighters do against Floyd.... (Castillo, Corrales, Judah, De La Hoya all took the fight to Floyd early and appeared to test Floyd....) I give Manny the edge in speed over all the above and with the power he has carried with him as he moved up in weight class it would be reasonable for Pac to look for an early flash knock-down if the straight left can get through the Mayweather defense early. How Floyd handles early adversity will determine the outcome….. Cotto couldn’t handle the unimaginable…. being knocked down by Manny once, then being knocked down and hurt by Manny again… Cotto lost his cool and looked to impose his power and size on Manny and we all know the rest…. (Oh and by the way this wasn’t the first time Cotto wilted under the pressure of the bright lights, same with De La Hoya, same with Hatton).
At this point I'm going to give Floyd the credit he deserves for being comfortable and in control on the biggest of stages. He has always risen to the occasion in the biggest fights of his life and didn’t let the pressure get to him(Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti, Judah and his nut punch, Hatton, De La Hoya were all supposed to be tests of Mayweather's fortitude and he delivered overwhelmingly in all)..... We have no reason to expect different on Mar 13... Until he shows he can’t handle the immense pressure of the big stage and bright lights, it’s foolish to just assume he won’t be able to handle the pressure on March 13. Having said that, Floyd handles the early flash knockdown and/or weathers the Pac onslaught early.
Here is where potential problems start for Manny. Manny is a warrior (Floyd a tactician…) When Manny smells blood in the water he goes in for the kill. If he senses a K.O. he is relentless in his pursuit. This is who Manny is… this is why people love him and why he is such a popular fighter, and deservedly so! I believe Manny’s greatest attribute has the potential to be his Achilles Heel and the beginning of the end for Manny! For Manny to come away with a victory he will need to suppress the warrior and fight a smart fight. Brute strength and power and speed are all attributes that Manny possesses in bunches but all that will be for naught without a well thought out game plan and the discipline to execute it on fight night. Manny’s talent with poor game execution spells a Floyd victory…. Sorry Manny. To think Manny and all his attributes can beat Floyd Mayweather at the peak of his career without a disciplined thought out AND well executed game plan is absurd. Manny will have to get up early (which he will )and then suppress the warrior instinct by having Mayweather come to him, using his speed and difficult angles to counter Floyds limited attack. I beliveve Manny has enough speed to counter Floyd. If Manny can forget about getting the K.O. (it will not happen with a defensive focused Mayweather) he can walk away with a decision against Floyd. Castillo played the executioner and lost, Corrales played the executioner and lost, Gatti was an executioner and knew nothing else (he ended up playing the role of punching bag against Mayweather ), Hatton played the executioner and lost, De La Hoya tried to play the role of executioner in his fight with Floyd instead of staying behind his jab and boxing Floyd (In my opinion he would have won the fight if he had).
A Tiger can’t change its stripes… and in my opinion neither will Manny change what has gotten him this far. When Manny gets confident he opens up his attack with no thought to defense. When this happens Manny will get hit again and again and again. He will jump in similar to Hatton and even though Mayweather doesn’t possess dominating power, there is none better on the planet at using his opponent’s weaknesses to defeat them. Manny has no defense, and anybody who is a Pac fan and says that defense is one of his best attributes is full of s#!^....
Manny (unable to stop himself) comes forward the whole fight to his detriment. Another victory to the P4P King and best fighter of this era.
Then comes the rematch…

Right back at you homey.

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**ummmid** · 12-08-2009, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by tacoboxer

Don’t reply to this tread if you can’t form a reasonable counter argument.... all this Manny destroying Floyd, blah,blah,blah..... Floyd easily handling Manny blah, blah,blah, IT'S ALL BS!!
If you don’t have enough smarts to give each fighter the credit they deserve for their body of work inside the ring... then keep your thoughts to yourself!
I see Manny carrying the fight early like a lot of quality fighters do against Floyd.... (Castillo, Corrales, Judah, De La Hoya all took the fight to Floyd early and appeared to test Floyd....) I give Manny the edge in speed over all the above and with the power he has carried with him as he moved up in weight class it would be reasonable for Pac to look for an early flash knock-down if the straight left can get through the Mayweather defense early. How Floyd handles early adversity will determine the outcome….. Cotto couldn’t handle the unimaginable…. being knocked down by Manny once, then being knocked down and hurt by Manny again… Cotto lost his cool and looked to impose his power and size on Manny and we all know the rest…. (Oh and by the way this wasn’t the first time Cotto wilted under the pressure of the bright lights, same with De La Hoya, same with Hatton).
At this point I'm going to give Floyd the credit he deserves for being comfortable and in control on the biggest of stages. He has always risen to the occasion in the biggest fights of his life and didn’t let the pressure get to him(Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti, Judah and his nut punch, Hatton, De La Hoya were all supposed to be tests of Mayweather's fortitude and he delivered overwhelmingly in all)..... We have no reason to expect different on Mar 13... Until he shows he can’t handle the immense pressure of the big stage and bright lights, it’s foolish to just assume he won’t be able to handle the pressure on March 13. Having said that, Floyd handles the early flash knockdown and/or weathers the Pac onslaught early.
Here is where potential problems start for Manny. Manny is a warrior (Floyd a tactician…) When Manny smells blood in the water he goes in for the kill. If he senses a K.O. he is relentless in his pursuit. This is who Manny is… this is why people love him and why he is such a popular fighter, and deservedly so! I believe Manny’s greatest attribute has the potential to be his Achilles Heel and the beginning of the end for Manny! For Manny to come away with a victory he will need to suppress the warrior and fight a smart fight. Brute strength and power and speed are all attributes that Manny possesses in bunches but all that will be for naught without a well thought out game plan and the discipline to execute it on fight night. Manny’s talent with poor game execution spells a Floyd victory…. Sorry Manny. To think Manny and all his attributes can beat Floyd Mayweather at the peak of his career without a disciplined thought out AND well executed game plan is absurd. Manny will have to get up early (which he will )and then suppress the warrior instinct by having Mayweather come to him, using his speed and difficult angles to counter Floyds limited attack. I beliveve Manny has enough speed to counter Floyd. If Manny can forget about getting the K.O. (it will not happen with a defensive focused Mayweather) he can walk away with a decision against Floyd. Castillo played the executioner and lost, Corrales played the executioner and lost, Gatti was an executioner and knew nothing else (he ended up playing the role of punching bag against Mayweather ), Hatton played the executioner and lost, De La Hoya tried to play the role of executioner in his fight with Floyd instead of staying behind his jab and boxing Floyd (In my opinion he would have won the fight if he had).
A Tiger can’t change its stripes… and in my opinion neither will Manny change what has gotten him this far. When Manny gets confident he opens up his attack with no thought to defense. When this happens Manny will get hit again and again and again. He will jump in similar to Hatton and even though Mayweather doesn’t possess dominating power, there is none better on the planet at using his opponent’s weaknesses to defeat them. Manny has no defense, and anybody who is a Pac fan and says that defense is one of his best attributes is full of s#!^....
Manny (unable to stop himself) comes forward the whole fight to his detriment. Another victory to the P4P King and best fighter of this era.
Then comes the rematch…

reading your post is like listening to this woman talk:

**MindBat** · 12-08-2009, 06:21 PM

Damn, homey. You could've warned a fella you were going to post a novel.

But anyway, yeah it's a bout time we have a civil discussion about both fighters' strengths and weaknesses.

It's by no means going to be "easy" for either one cause they're both going to be expecting the very best version of one another.

What will be interesting though is what Freddie is cooking up to beat Floyd.

He had a plan for Oscar which, likely due to the short term he was with him, Oscar couldn't pull off successfully.

He has or will have a vision of a blueprint he expects Manny to execute on the big day.

So that's what will be most intriguing for me to be watching for.

**Chups** · 12-08-2009, 06:25 PM

Manny rushing his opponents when he smells a KO or blood is an old Manny. He already taken this out of this system slowly since the 2nd Morales fight. He perfected it in the DLH fight, that's why it most of his fights last a little longer. (Except for Hatton, he thought manny's left hook was the ringpost).

I personally think that there will be a different gameplan for Floyd. Roach will study this and Pac will oblige. Pacquiao can be taught.......they could make use of his left & right hooks more against Floyd MAYBE. I advise Team Mayweather to study Pac's fights the same, this is an elite level fight...no more bums and mediocre opoonents that Floyd can easily adjusts to.

**screwhead1** · 12-08-2009, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by shadeyfizzle

Floyd will not be able to counter Pacquiao as effectively as he has everyone else he's ever faced. The reason is simple. Floyd is a fundamental fighter and Pac is anything but.

Floyd relies on basic boxing principles to succeed. Make his opponent miss and take advantage when they are off balance and out of position. But that wont work on Pacquiao because of his growth since the 2nd Marquez fight. He no longer loads up looking for 1 hit kill shots so he is never truly off balance. Pacquiao still has the ability to throw and land effectively in positions where no other fighter in the world would be able to cover up and defend...let alone launch an offensive.

what? pac was so off balance in both the hatton and cotto fight that it wasn't funny...he was also open to counters left and right...his pressure was so overwhelming that anything that those fighters could have done was overshadowed by them wanting to answer back immediately...mayweather has only had that problem once...and that was with demarcus corley...but that was after he understood that corley couldn't hurt him...your point has no legs to run with...

**IronFistKilla** · 12-08-2009, 06:43 PM

Chups: "I advise Team Mayweather to study Pac's fights the same, this is an elite level fight...no more bums and mediocre opoonents that Floyd can easily adjusts to."

Do these bums and mediocre opponents include some of the same people Manny fought......after Floyd??? Use your brain people.

**Pullcounter** · 12-08-2009, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by tacoboxer

A Tiger can’t change its stripes… and in my opinion neither will Manny change what has gotten him this far. When Manny gets confident he opens up his attack with no thought to defense. When this happens Manny will get hit again and again and again. He will jump in similar to Hatton and even though Mayweather doesn’t possess dominating power, there is none better on the planet at using his opponent’s weaknesses to defeat them. Manny has no defense, and anybody who is a Pac fan and says that defense is one of his best attributes is full of s#!^....
Manny (unable to stop himself) comes forward the whole fight to his detriment. Another victory to the P4P King and best fighter of this era.
Then comes the rematch…

I didn't bother to read your whole rant.

you basic argument is that floyd = skilled and pac = unskilled.

here's the counter argument:

pac is a different fighter than when he used to be at 130 lbs. is he still aggressive? yes, but he picks his spots better and his right hand is as good as his left now.

The Thinking Man’s Thread on Manny v Floyd .....