The reason the heavyweights suck

**Dark Destroyer** · 11-26-2004, 04:48 AM

The heavyweights suck because there isn't a unified champion in my opinion. If there was a true champion then perhaps bigger fights would be lined up. Instead at this moment in time non of the title holders seem to want to fight each other. Maybe thats because of a strong Don King influence in the heavyweight division. I reckon if Danny beats Vitali then we will be a step closer to getting a unified champ because Danny boy will fight anyone and he is run by Mr Frank Warren. The old rivalry between Don and Frank can start up again. Thats if Danny wins of course.

**THRILLAinmanila** · 11-26-2004, 04:54 AM

The last 4 heavyweight bouts showed why this division is in a sorry
state. Except for probably Rahman, I couldn't say anything good about the rest of the heavies who fought that night.

**Dark Destroyer** · 11-26-2004, 05:04 AM

Rahman won by stoppage but he looked really sloppy and unprofessional doing so in my opinion. Rahman has got impressive power but he seems so sluggish and sloppy with his punches.

**catskills23** · 11-26-2004, 05:04 AM

It has nothing to do with not having a unified champion , you could have a unified champion and the division would still suck . You only have to lok at the current heavyweights to see that they have very poor boxing fundamentals, they are being trained by clowns who nothing about the sweet science and are teaching there fighters incorrect boxing technique . Its the subar the trainers who are killing the division not don king , money or the paper titles . These crap trainers need to be removed from the division and they need to be replaced by guys like larry holmes and sugar ray leonard who were great boxers and who know everything there is to know about the sweet science and would be able to teach promising heavyweight the prper boxing techniques and until that happens we will have crap trainers who will continue to ruin promising young heavyweights careers .

**Dark Destroyer** · 11-26-2004, 05:10 AM

I disagree that you can pin blame on the trainers, if a trainer is working with a average fighter then he is only going to get average medicore results. Even the likes of Larry Holmes or Sugar Ray couldn't make Ruiz any better than he already is. What the **** could you do to Chris Byrd to make him better? A new trainer can't give him a KO punch! The problem is they are ALL average fighters with average boxing skills.

I think having a unified champion would make things more exciting because the big fighters of the division could actually fight each other instead of holding on to there titles fighters other people all the time.

**catskills23** · 11-26-2004, 05:29 AM

I agree nobody could do much with ruiz or byrd , but the likes of rahman, guinn, kirk johnson, the klitschcos could all become much better fighters if they were taught by good trainers .Look at james toney for example he has excellent fundamentals because he was taught by the best trainer in the business freddie roach . Toney is the only guy in the division who has sound boxing fundamentals , that should not be the case .

**Dark Destroyer** · 11-26-2004, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by catskills23

I agree nobody could do much with ruiz or byrd , but the likes of rahman, guinn, kirk johnson, the klitschcos could all become much better fighters if they were taught by good trainers .Look at james toney for example he has excellent fundamentals because he was taught by the best trainer in the business freddie roach . Toney is the only guy in the division who has sound boxing fundamentals , that should not be the case .

You maybe right to some degree but the level of fighters these trainers would have to work with is poor. Manny Stewart is a great trainer and was the perfect trainer for Lennox Lewis but when he trained Wlad even Manny couldn't help him and he did try his best. James Toney has got great boxing skills but he has always had them, Roach is a good trainer but Toney as a fighter has always been naturally gifted. His boxing skills look even greater in the heavyweight division because of his speed. Chris Byrd has good boxing skills but these days he seems to like to get messy with his opponents and i think thats a bad thing on his behalf. My saying is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

**pinkpanther** · 11-26-2004, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by catskills23

Do you know why the heavyweights suck , its not because they lack talent its because they are trained by sub pat ytrainers . Take a look vital klitschco foe example the guys boxing fundamentals are awful . Vitali shows no head movement and is straight up . He often throws punches out of position exposing himself to lethal counter punches . When he gets hit, he backs straight up so he can be hit again . He dosent know how to duck, bend at the waist and stay in punching position when avoiding punches and instead leans away from punches . Klitschco blocks some but dosent counter he dosent have a complete arsenal of punches , his footwork is horrible . He is panicked when he is attacked and dosent clinch well . I mean this guy is the best heavyweight in the world and he has all these technical deficences . The only good trainer in the heavyweight division is freddie roach , his fighter james toney is the only heavyweight in the division with good boxing fundamental the rest of the heavyweight trainers suck and they are the reason the heavyweights suck .

I fundamentally disagree with this, I don't think this is the case at all. The reason the division is poor has nothing to do with the quality of trainers. If you look at some of the supposed best fighters in the division then you'll see why.

Take Byrd, here is a guy who is relitivly small for the divsion and does not have alot to offer offensively, how has he got to the top - answer because he is technically very good defensively, he has been trained well and has the skills to deal with the majority of things thrown at him.

Look at Ruiz, I'm sorry to say this because he's so awful to watch, but he is a rank average fighter who is hanging out at the top of what is admitedly an awful division, but how has he managed it with his ability? - Answer he hugs, he clings, he covers up, he get telling shots off when he knows he can - and generally does not waste his energy with meaningless punches. These attributes have been developed with his trainer who has managed to take a fighter who has no right, with his ability, to be were he is and produced a strategy abd style that has got him were he is.

You actually concede at least that Freddy Roach has done a good job with Toney - that can't really be argued. Further to this there are a number of other fighters who the same can be said of. Do we consider Roy Jones a heavy? - if so can't argue with his technical prowess.

My point is that it has nothing to do with the quality of trainers out there or the fact that there is not a unified champion, more to do with the fact that there is a distinct lack of ability in the division and an even more severe lack of personalities to generate the interest that has gone with the divsion in the past.

**blackbelt2003** · 11-26-2004, 08:57 AM

I think the skill level is relatively high.

Byrd is one of the most skillful heavyweights in years, for a start.

I think the problem is that the three titlists just aren't exciting names. If they were to unify it would give one of them a big deal more respect, and it would make sense of the rankings.

If, for instance, Klit unified the belts, the others would HAVE to fight each other to jostle for position to fight him, whereas at the moment the contenders can just sit around and wait for one of the three titlists to need an opponent.

Black

The reason the heavyweights suck