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Originally posted by Super_Lightweight
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You make a good point by saying they have different skills. Toney's more of a counter puncher who stays in a spot and hits and Roy is more of a boxer/puncher who moves around alot. Their just different fighters. -
Toney is more skillful. Roy Jones was never outboxed in his prime because he was quicker and had better reflexes than anyone he fought. However it would be unfair to say Roy Jones was unskilled. Just a lot less skilled than Toney.Comment
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It's a bit of a hyperbole to say that Jones lacked boxing skill. I'll put it this way: he lacked conventional boxing skill. Much like Muhammad Ali, his physical talents were so immense that he could get away with his awkward style. He could afford to back up with his hands down, throw multiple hooks in successes, lead with power punches, etc. Come on, his jab was fairly nonexistant.
However, he was skilled in his own style. He was a master at judging distance--knowing the exact spot where he could land but avoid incoming punches at the same time. You can't judge guys like Ali or Jones by basic and conventional skills...that is until their physical ability diminishes.Comment
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Skill is skill. It doesn't matter what weight class it is in.Originally posted by vdiary
Also someone else said because Jones beat Toney he has better skills. That is untrue becuase Jones didn't beat him with skill he beat him with athletic ability.
And Toney was losing to Michael Nunn but he was not being outboxed by superior skillz of Michael Nunn, he was losing because Michael Nunn was a very simmilar fighter to Ali and Jones and had emense physical talent and speed.Comment
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skills are about figuring out your opponent. Seeing his weaknesses and exploiting them. Its about being able to overcome a fighter who has something you don't, with the stuff that you have. This is why Toney is so skillfull. Do you see anyone his height even trying to compete with today's heavys? Only Tyson tries and he isn't doing that good anymore now that his natural talent is gone.
Jones never had to figure anybody out. He just relied on the fact that no one could come up with a plan to beat him.
Jones did display skill in beating John Ruiz, that was the only time he faced a boxer who had some natural ability that he didn't have.Last edited by joeboxer; 04-11-2005, 06:47 PM.Comment
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hmm
That's not really true. He faced several fighters which had more stregth and faced and beat Tarver once while past his prime and weigh low on weight. Roy faced guys with certain natural advantages over him at least 2 or 3 times. Maybe not a lot, but still, more than once.Jones did display skill in beating John Ruiz, that was the only time he faced a boxer who had some natural ability that he didn't have.
Also, if Jones were a "lot less skilled" than Toney, the fight would have been somewhat competitive.
Roy has displayed his boxing skills and knowledge in the ring as well as during commentating.
Don't act like Roy had a low level of skill or no skill, because that is BS. You can argue other boxers were more "textbook", but that doesn't mean that Roy neccessarily has to be "low-skilled".Comment
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If Roy is such a skilled boxer, he should still be good even if he slows down a little. Roy was physically amazing, take that a way and he is a **** fighter. Toney on the other hand can win fights while being out of shape because he can break down his opponents style.
Oh and btw, in the fight between the 2 Toney was in teh worst shape of his entire career from losing 40 pounds in less than a month. I believe it probably would have been much more competitive had he been at the top of his game.Comment
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Roy has better skills, just because his style was speed, how can one say he had no skills, if you ask me Toney is the one that has no skills, he lost to Montell Griffen 2 times Roy crushed him after landing like 5 punches, he also beat Toney himself. To say that his speed is what made him good is correct but not only speed can make you good. Roy was basically 50-0 before he lost to tarver. I got his career on DVD and i must say he was much faster than his opposition. But he also had tremendous skills to go along with that speed, he had much power at 168. So sugar ray leonard was very fast also , is it fair to say he won most of his fights off just speed alone. Once Ruiz beats Toney there will be no more doubt on who is better. Roy is 10 times better than Toney. If they would have rematched back in the day the outcome would have been the same. Now Toney is talking trash because Jones seems to be done with his career. So now everybodys calling him out because he has lost 2 in a row. And Roy can take a punch, just look at his career, people only watch his last to fights and say he cant take a punch, Toney hit jones very hard at one point in the fight, he turned and did like a 180 and it landed on jones chin. Jones didnt even stumble he dropped his hands and shook his head basically mocking Toney.Comment
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if Toney can use that excuse about losing 40 lbs or whatever, that was probally only fat weight, being he is a fat ****. Then roy has been in the worst shape of his career since Tarver 1. And you can tell. He had to loose muscle to drop to 175 not fat, Toney is a looser, and will loose to a bum ass Ruiz.Originally posted by dandoComment
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Originally posted by joeboxer
I agree. Toney is a better pure boxer...he's mastered just about everything in the book as far as basic skills. Had Jones been skilled the way Toney is, he'd be able to rely on other things to help him win than just his speed and reflexes.
Roy had his own natural gifts that he used to the max and you can't hate on him for that. Toney has the better basic skills however and it's showing up now that both guys are in their older age.Comment
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