*Pacman legacy vs Roy Jones JR Legacy, debate inside... *

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  • nujabes77
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    #101
    Originally posted by charlieg
    Where to start on this ludicrous piece of flamebait...


    The Marquez fights were 4 years apart. So either you were in a coma or are just making something up, and actually haven't been following boxing for too long.


    Really? *Goes to check the record*

    Yup, looks like it is still a draw and a win for Pacquiao. Hey, did you watch the fights in full yet? Or are you just making up that he lost both times because that's what critics like to say?

    I watched them both back in full the other day and, to be honest, the only reason people say Pacquiao was lucky is because Marquez's corner tell him he is winning the fight so he's upset when he doesn't win. I scored them both round by round as impartially as possible, and both times I had Pacquiao up. He did the most damage in both fights, and Marquez only tended to win rounds that Pacquiao "had off".

    In fact, if you check the official records, Pacquiao should have really won both fights - the draw was down to a mistake by the 113-113 judge who scored the first round 10-7 when a 3 knock down round should be scored 10-6.

    Download those two fights (easy to find for a boxing fan) and watch them. You might learn something.


    I don't think any boxing fan or critic with an ounze of sense would suggest Roy wasn't an incredible boxer with unmatched talents and very impressive accomplishments. Pacquiao won more belts at more weights though, and he didn't fight lumps like Ruiz, so I'd argue that Pacquiao's win vs Cotto is more impressive than RJJ against Ruiz.


    Easy tiger.


    Unfair comparison. Roy is American. PPV is a largely American product.

    Pacman gets higher fees from Filipino TV stations. So does that make him better than RJJ?


    Pacman won the WBC Flyweight title before he was 20 years old in 1998.


    Pacquiao is displaying more intelligence than Roy and has interests outside of boxing. Staying in the game too long is not admirable. Ask Muhammad Ali.


    RJJ in his prime would have won that comfortably. Going in against another guy with a padded record and getting beaten up for 9 rounds when he should have won it in 3 is nothing particularly impressive.


    Hatton was over the hill? With 1 loss on his record at 30 years old? Don't think so. Cotto? 1 loss on his record and 28. Don't think so. De La Hoya? Yeah, but it made Pacman money and gave him fame. Most of Pacman's opponents were either close or just past their prime. Few other than DLH were over the hill.


    Nobody is dis*****g that Roy is a top p4p fighter. I'm not sure why you are defending him? His legacy doesn't need defending.

    BHop will beat him though, sorry to break it to you. Age refined BHop, and shattered RJJ. He's still good but not close to a younger RJJ who was untouchable.
    this is like the best first mother****iong post i have ever seen

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    • AKATheMack
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      #102
      Originally posted by jrosales13
      And, Roy was never the "real" champ you do know that right?
      Maybe not, but he was still the best fighter in the division. You know that right?

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      • jrosales13
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        #103
        Originally posted by AKATheMack
        Maybe not, but he was still the best fighter in the division. You know that right?
        If he was the best then why didn't he ever win the real championship in 5 weightclasses?

        Name me one fighter who was the best in the last 20-30yrs who never won the real championship? Ever?

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        • jrosales13
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          #104
          Originally posted by Mayweather101
          i speak for the pulse of wht boxing does for the general public...prolly within the last 3 4 years i became a true hardcore boxing fan
          Oh I see and I just realized you are young too. But, Pac was known for the last 8yrs. He really hit the seen by age 23.

          And, as fantastic and gifted as Roy was. He was never a PPV draw. It might seem weird. But, his PPV sales were not good. But, a lot had to do that he never had the right partner either.

          And, IMO B-Hop beats him...

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          • AKATheMack
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            #105
            Originally posted by jrosales13
            If he was the best then why didn't he ever win the real championship in 5 weightclasses?

            Name me one fighter who was the best in the last 20-30yrs who never won the real championship? Ever?
            I dont need titles to tell me that Roy Jones was a better fighter than Michaelczewski. Without bringing up lineal titles can you give me any evidence that Michaelczewski was better?

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            • jrosales13
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              #106
              Originally posted by AKATheMack
              I dont need titles to tell me that Roy Jones was a better fighter than Michaelczewski. Without bringing up lineal titles can you give me any evidence that Michaelczewski was better?
              I can't give any evidence cuz they didn't fight each other? So how can you? I do believe that Roy and Dariusz was the top 2 guys. But, I can't say who was better cuz at LHW cuz they never fought. But, all I know for a fact is that Dariusz was the man in that weightclass the #1 guy before Roy got there and Roy never fought him...

              But, why didn't Roy win one at 154, 160, 168? I mean he fought in 5 divisions and not one real champ? When in the modern era has a great fighter not win a real belt? Ever?

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              • AKATheMack
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                #107
                Originally posted by jrosales13
                I can't give any evidence cuz they didn't fight each other? So how can you? I do believe that Roy and Dariusz was the top 2 guys. But, I can't say who was better cuz at LHW cuz they never fought. But, all I know for a fact is that Dariusz was the man in that weightclass the #1 guy before Roy got there and Roy never fought him...

                But, why didn't Roy win one at 154, 160, 168? I mean he fought in 5 divisions and not one real champ? When in the modern era has a great fighter not win a real belt? Ever?
                I can because Ive seen them both fight. I also know Roy has a better resume and better skills than Dariusz. You are way too caught up on that lineal title ****, often the best fighter in a division isnt the lineal champion. I believe the best should fight the best, and he should have fought Darius but we dont need to titles for us to know what fights need to be made.

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                • jrosales13
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                  #108
                  Originally posted by AKATheMack
                  I can because Ive seen them both fight. I also know Roy has a better resume and better skills than Dariusz. You are way too caught up on that lineal title ****, often the best fighter in a division isnt the lineal champion. I believe the best should fight the best, and he should have fought Darius but we dont need to titles for us to know what fights need to be made.
                  But, there is plenty of times that fighters look like they are better and more skillful. Yet they lose that is why there is call upsets. That is why we fight the fights. Just cuz somebody looks better on paper. Don't mean they actually are better. Both guys resume is not great at LHW. But, Dariusz was the #1 guy. Roy didn't take his spot. Roy didn't fight the #1 guy at 154, 160, 168, or 175, or at HW. Don't you think that it is weird he never fought the #1 guy? Don't you wonder why?

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                  • Mayweather101
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                    #109
                    Originally posted by charlieg
                    Where to start on this ludicrous piece of flamebait...


                    The Marquez fights were 4 years apart. So either you were in a coma or are just making something up, and actually haven't been following boxing for too long.


                    Really? *Goes to check the record*

                    Yup, looks like it is still a draw and a win for Pacquiao. Hey, did you watch the fights in full yet? Or are you just making up that he lost both times because that's what critics like to say?

                    I watched them both back in full the other day and, to be honest, the only reason people say Pacquiao was lucky is because Marquez's corner tell him he is winning the fight so he's upset when he doesn't win. I scored them both round by round as impartially as possible, and both times I had Pacquiao up. He did the most damage in both fights, and Marquez only tended to win rounds that Pacquiao "had off".

                    In fact, if you check the official records, Pacquiao should have really won both fights - the draw was down to a mistake by the 113-113 judge who scored the first round 10-7 when a 3 knock down round should be scored 10-6.

                    Download those two fights (easy to find for a boxing fan) and watch them. You might learn something.


                    I don't think any boxing fan or critic with an ounze of sense would suggest Roy wasn't an incredible boxer with unmatched talents and very impressive accomplishments. Pacquiao won more belts at more weights though, and he didn't fight lumps like Ruiz, so I'd argue that Pacquiao's win vs Cotto is more impressive than RJJ against Ruiz.


                    Easy tiger.


                    Unfair comparison. Roy is American. PPV is a largely American product.

                    Pacman gets higher fees from Filipino TV stations. So does that make him better than RJJ?


                    Pacman won the WBC Flyweight title before he was 20 years old in 1998.


                    Pacquiao is displaying more intelligence than Roy and has interests outside of boxing. Staying in the game too long is not admirable. Ask Muhammad Ali.


                    RJJ in his prime would have won that comfortably. Going in against another guy with a padded record and getting beaten up for 9 rounds when he should have won it in 3 is nothing particularly impressive.


                    Hatton was over the hill? With 1 loss on his record at 30 years old? Don't think so. Cotto? 1 loss on his record and 28. Don't think so. De La Hoya? Yeah, but it made Pacman money and gave him fame. Most of Pacman's opponents were either close or just past their prime. Few other than DLH were over the hill.


                    Nobody is dis*****g that Roy is a top p4p fighter. I'm not sure why you are defending him? His legacy doesn't need defending.

                    BHop will beat him though, sorry to break it to you. Age refined BHop, and shattered RJJ. He's still good but not close to a younger RJJ who was untouchable.
                    nuthugger


                    hug

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                    • illmatickid
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                      #110
                      Originally posted by The Underboss
                      Pac's resume:

                      Barrera (2)
                      Morales (2)
                      Hatton
                      DLH
                      Cotto
                      Marquez

                      Jones' resume:

                      Toney
                      Ruiz
                      Trinidad
                      McCallum
                      Tarver

                      = Pac's resume wins
                      Jones also beat:
                      Bernard Hopkins
                      Virgil Hill
                      Montell Griffin
                      Clinton Woods
                      Vinny Pazienza

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