Pacquiao's success raises questions

[Vasyl’s dad]

You have to understand my point with Bonds better if you don't. He took the fall for the entire steroids era yet they were doing it a good 10+ years prior to him using. Ego or not, he showed many things: Even the best feel trapped and can fall into temptation. Players feel they can't speak out any other way because of the "code of the players."
He proved PEDs work when others were not so sure how much they worked. Look at the numbers.
Baseball allowed cheating. They allowed steroid use. Hell, they allow cheating in general...always have. Greenies have been used for a very long time. Maybe we should take many of the ATG players out of the HOF. Greenies do help. And of course other drugs that can keep you playing.
You know what else is cheating the record books? Keep black players out of baseball all those years. Get rid of Ruth.

That's why I give him a pass.

"two wrongs don't make a right"

Yea, baseball allowed cheating,

but not everyone indulged in it. See Ken Griffey Jr.


lol the record books, by that token,

there weren't any Mexicans, Dominicans or Asians.

Just burn the whole thing.

Negative.


Look, thats just history and nothing will change that.

Babe Ruth belongs right where he is. He hit more homeruns in a season than every team but one. I'm sure I don't have to tell you he pitched as well.


Barry Bonds was used as a scapegoat I agree,

but hes still a cheater as is everyone else who has been caught.

I don't give that pass to him, or McGwire, or Sosa, or Dykstra, or Brady Anderson, etc etc.


The entire basis of athletics is to see what is humanly possible.

Barry Bonds and others cheated their sport and should never be given a pass for doing so.

If you want to go back and find out every single person who did the same,

be my guest.

but to say its basically ok because everyone else is doing it, is taking away from sports as a whole.

Everyone doesn't cheat.

[MANGLER]

**** on him when he gets busted. Til then the roid **** is garbage.

[hugh grant]

Actually, your post and the one above have a point: It is an awe situation that they can't even believe so they have to raise questions to reason things out. But, there are people/athletes that come around once in a while that leave you feeling that this is too good to be true and yet, they are clean.

True. I just want the mayweather camp to just admit they are in awe of Pac, and think Pac is the greatest fighter in the world at the moment. They rate him so high and think he is so good, and above Floyd that he looks almost as if he has taken steroids.

[Syf]

manny takes all kinds of supplements...

but not the illegal kind, as far as I, and any of you know.

I give him the benefit of the doubt. Innocent till proven guilty

[Anti~Jalandoni]

i thought so....he's just jealous

[Equilibrium]

People who accuse Pacquiao have never being in a gym or trained in their life.

I'm a normal white dude with a full time job, i'm 25. In the past 7 years i have put on a good 30 pounds of muscles training 6 days a week(on and off mind you) 2-4 hours a day. Boxing/MMA 5 days a week and weight lifting 1 day a week.

I must be doing roids right?

No, i don't even take supplements or creatine. I eat healthy in good portions and i work out hard.

If i did something like that i'm sure as hell a pro boxer who can train all day long and has a team that monitors everything he eats and makes sure he gets the right supplements can do it.

Don't get me wrong, Pacquiao could be doing steroids. But for all we know Cotto, Mayweather and a bunch of other fighters that have never been suspected could be doing them to.

At this point it's just speculation.


Steroids don't turn you into a ****ing superhuman either, they let you work out harder and longer, thats it.

So would steroids make any fighter better? Yeah kinda, he could be in better shape. But does it teach him how to fight? hell no.

[Benny Leonard]

=Tapatio;6679408][B][FONT="Palatino Linotype"][COLOR="Red"]"two wrongs don't make a right"

Yea, baseball allowed cheating,

but not everyone indulged in it. See Ken Griffey Jr.


lol the record books, by that token,

there weren't any Mexicans, Dominicans or Asians.

Just burn the whole thing.

Negative.

Put * next their name. Their records aren't as great. Add in the Negro league players and everybody else...records aren't going to be up as high. Eras are different anyway. People used to hit .400 but can't anymore because things are tougher.

For cheating: Greenies are cheating. It is well known that many ATG players in the HOF used Greenies.
Steroids were made available by the mid-late 50's....everybody is suspect especially since a well known Dr. was giving his own remedies to Stars.

Look, thats just history and nothing will change that.

Babe Ruth belongs right where he is. He hit more homeruns in a season than every team but one. I'm sure I don't have to tell you he pitched as well.

Yeah, yeah...I know but I'm just saying....it's not always what it seems. There are many things to look at. Babe was going into the HOF as a pitcher is what is said. His numbers may have been lowered if he played against more of the best. The weak links in the White Baseball league would have been out of the league and replaced by the Elite Negro League Players.

Didn't the Negro Leagues beat the White All-Stars more times than they lost?

Even 150 year Old Satchel Paige didn't do so bad when he finally was allowed to play in the Majors.


Not allowing Black or other players of non-white color to play is a form of cheating.

Barry Bonds was used as a scapegoat I agree,

but hes still a cheater as is everyone else who has been caught.

I don't give that pass to him, or McGwire, or Sosa, or Dykstra, or Brady Anderson, etc etc.

Bonds was already a HOF/ATG even before he hit Late Adult Puberty. Bonds was needed to end the Steroid era or at least tone it down with a steroid program.

The entire basis of athletics is to see what is humanly possible.

Barry Bonds and others cheated their sport and should never be given a pass for doing so.

If you want to go back and find out every single person who did the same,

be my guest.

but to say its basically ok because everyone else is doing it, is taking away from sports as a whole.

Everyone doesn't cheat

Yes, but in today’s world of being able to get away with cheating...everybody is going to be suspect. There are "cheaters" that come out clean on tests. Even experts agree.

I only said it was OK for Bonds because of the overall result. He is a HOF/ATG player. He already proved it by being Skinny Bonds and playing in the steroid era and still putting up HOF numbers.

Bonds was already going up against steroid pitchers and steroid fielders so his numbers may have been even better without the steroids. He was already being cheated.
He evened the playing field and exposed it. He shoved it in everybody's face and that is why I say it was actually a good thing he did. Not someone else because they will get a pass but Bonds brings it open to the forum.

Not just steroids, but the whole mess with the politics of baseball and the code.

He had three options: (1) Come and expose it which could in turn black-ball him from baseball. (2) accept being cheated out of stats and money and recognition and finish out your career
(3) Play ball

[Benny Leonard]

True. I just want the mayweather camp to just admit they are in awe of Pac, and think Pac is the greatest fighter in the world at the moment. They rate him so high and think he is so good, and above Floyd that he looks almost as if he has taken steroids.

I consider Pac number 1 in the World P4P like most do.

Number 1 in boxing though overall is Vitali. I still think Vitali would beat Wlad so that is why I pick Vitali.

[badboypeenoy]

If Pacquiao was American this wouldn't even be an issue.

[HaglerSteelChin]

I think its likely he is taking performance enhancement

I have seen almost every pacman fight from 112 pounds to now. Here is why i think it is likely he is on perfomance enhancement drugs:

1- Physique: Just recently Juan Manuel Marquez moved up alot of weight to fight Mayweather, Marquez unlike Pacman retained some water weight. He was muscular but not ripped as pacman who now looks like bruce lee. Boxer Kermit Cintron has said there is no way without some perfomance enhancement drugs can you gain over 20 pounds of muscle in such a short time. Even Duran, De La Hoya, and Mayweather didnt look that ripped.

2- He seems to get stronger with weight. If you look at pacman he was actually knock down 5 times at 126 and lower. He was knocked out twice by torrecampo and Singurat 3k batter, and was taken down by a stiff jab by Hussein at 122. But now he is willing to allow Cotto give him free body shots on the ropes. Cotto a man who can knockout a natural welter with ONE body shot and couldnt do any damage to pac with dozens. He had to go 12 rounds with Marquez twice, Larios, and Morales (1st fight) but now he can physically dominate naturally bigger fighters as David Diaz, De la hoya, Hatton, and Cotto.

3-Stamnia - Most fighters show fatigue and less sting in their punches in the late rounds. But pacman never shows any signs of that. in fact, the volume of punches get hige often. People say steroids hamper stamina for boxing. WRONG. If steroids don't help stamina why would pitchers like Clemens and Pettite take them if they decrease and not increase pitches thrown and innings pitched. In addition, these drugs help increase recovery time. Most importantly, pacman has been active for 15 years as a fighter and he never shows any effects of his tough fights. His energy seems to be get higher even after numerous slugfests. After Duran fought Hagler in a 15 round battle he had nothing left for Thomas Hearns and was knocked out in 2 rounds.

4-Head- His head seems to get bigger in proporation to his body. These are signs of HGH and other substances.

5- Designer Steroids can't be Traced- The fact is synthethic steroids as THG, Madol and Genabol can't be traced. There are also synthetic stimulants that can't be traced. So of course he hasen't tested positive.

6-Never heard of Steroids: Manny has stated he never heard of steroids. That is both humorous and preposterous at once. I guess when they do his blood and urine drug tests he thinks they are checking if he takes Flinstones Vitamins for kids or if he takes energy bars. Of course, HE KNOWS. They even have to sign papers with random drug tests. That sounds very defensive to say i never heard of steroids.

7-No Wear Down: All fighters are human after numerous fights they start to show age and wear down. Pacman has been active for 15 years as a fighter and he never shows any effects of his tough fights. His energy seems to be get higher even after numerous slugfests. After Duran fought Hagler in a 15 round battle he had nothing left for Thomas Hearns and was knocked out in 2 rounds. Even Hagler after the Duran fight looked shaky with Roldan early on. He even had his only official knockdown on the 1st round. Although some will argue it was half slip and half punch. Pacman has had tough wars with Morales, Marquez, Sanchez, Barreras etc., yet he seems to be impervious to slowing down as a fighter. Hagler a very conditioned fighter definitely started to slow down after his fights with Duran, Hearns, and John Beast Mugabi. Hagler was very slow in the Leonard fight due to the constant wars he had.

8- Top Rank doesent sue for Libel or Slander: Floyd Mayweather Jr and his father both have accused pacman of taking perfomance enhancing drugs. Bob Arum is an attorney why wouldnt he seek relief and damages for his top prize fighter's reputation being questioned? Because if top rank sues and they testify and its proven later that manny took drugs than they can go to jail for perjury. Some will say he wants to fight mayweather so he wont sue but other fighters as Kermit Cintron have already accused him. NO LAWSUIT yet.

9-Philippine culture: This dosent sound politically correct but i know the culture, I been to the philippines. I can speak some tagalog and cebuano. The country has a long history of corruption, scandals, and political wrong doing. The manila airport is the only major airport that charges a terminal fee for using their facility. Hotels are known to trump up charges on visitors. Manny knows the culture wells. The motivation is to make millions of dollars by cheating. If Manny stays at Featherweight and lower he wont make $10-$20 Million fight. He at best will be like Chris John of Indonesia a featherweight making at most $1 million a fight.

10- Defies Reality: Unfortunately, we have seen boxers as Vargas, Jones, Toney, Mosley get caught. We were foolish to believe that Mcgwire and Sosa hit 70 home runs and 66 home runs due to hard work and talent. Than Barry Bonds breaks the record a few years later, a record that couldnt be touch for nearly 40 years. Now we have a boxer that is Henry Armstrong with shocking power. When De La Hoya fought Hopkins at 160 he was KOd with one body punch. THe Great Jose Napoles couldnt handle the naturally bigger Monzon, Arguello couldnt finish Pryor on his quest for his 4th weight division crown. Now we have a Flyweight knocking out welters SO EASy. He is like a God. But he didnt look like a god before at 122. He is not a god. He is JUST JUICED UP.