How good is Marquez?

[daggum]

you have to be a very boring fighter to beat manny pacquiao







enter floyd mayweather

[Shattered Jaw]

Well, he was the last guy to go the distance with Pacquiao!

Diaz
De La Hoya
Hatton
Cotto

Have all been BRUTALLY stopped or just plain Knockout cold. I cannot stress how much of a phenomena Manny Pacquiao is.

[talip bin osman]

you have to be a very boring fighter to beat manny pacquiao

enter floyd mayweather

man erik morales was damn ****in boring...

[Lineal Champ]

Every fighter has that one opponent whos style gives them problems i.e Forrest to Mosley.
Marquez is really good, but i think Pacquiao made him, anyone see the Chris John fight?

[Syf]

These are two very vague statements. Nothing I can really offer up as a counterpoint to something so general.

Well then I'll follow up with another vague statement. Every fighter as they mature, their styles evolve. People don't just stay static, hardly ever. They change...for better..or for worse as time marches on.

Style ; The way in which something is said, done, expressed, or performed.

Manny putting more power into his shots doesn't effect the way in which he's performing. Because the added weight is the reason for the added power.

If you take him out of the Welterweight division, and put him back at 135, he'd still be performing the exact same way, except with less dynamic power.

And where do you get that his footwork was wild in the Marquez fight?

Being less wild effects his style. Because, he doesn't just throw heedless shots anymore with his eyes closed. He's much more calculating now and throws together devastating combinations, and less of those volume oriented quasi aimless flurries that used to be his bread and butter.

He would be more measured, and with better ring IQ if you put him back at 135 now.. Which you couldn't because he's too big now.

That sideways counter with the hook or uppercut is something Manny has been doing for a while now, but it never really got much attention until he used it to clean Hatton's clock.

I seem to recall him doing that against Morales in their 3rd fight on a few occasions, but I'd have to check the tapes to be sure.

Yeah, he has had lateral movement with counters for awhile..but that was only part of my point. Pac is actually willing to go back a few steps now without it being forcibly at the end of a fist. True, he has kept his relentlessness, but is more tactical with it..

He only did that what? Once? Twice? And Roach himself said that was not a part of Pacquiao's gameplan. That Manny deviated from their strategy on purpose, to put himself on the ropes, to try to test Miguel's power to see if he could handle it.

He's still very easily timed and countered, as Cotto showed in the first few rounds last night by consistently snapping his head back with a good jab, and countering him effectively early on.

I think we'd all agree that Cotto's jab and countering skills are not on par with the jab and countering skills of Juan Manuel Marquez.

Whether it was in the plan or not, its... how did you put it.. effecting how something is done, expressed, or performed.

He did it on the ropes...but he also used that same guard in the middle of the ring a couple of times. In certain moments, he was much more stationary than he was against JMM.

Yeah his guard isn't great. Cotto was jabbing and uppercutting through it. But he was using it.

Marquez's countering skills are better, I agree with that. But Cotto's converted southpaw jab is one of his best weapons. He knocked down Clottey with it, just as one example.

[davidoff]

You also have to take into account that Marquez is a warrrior.

When he's hurt or goes down, he becomes stronger. Something ignites inside him, but he controls it so well and uses it to his advantage.

[Uturn]

Marquez cant cut it at welterweight so Pac would walk through him now. However Marquez at lower weights will always give Pac problems, he was awesome at counter punching which Pac found hard to deal with. Great fighter but past his prime now.

[ßringer]

Every fighter has that one opponent whos style gives them problems i.e Forrest to Mosley.
Marquez is really good, but i think Pacquiao made him, anyone see the Chris John fight?

I saw Marquez beat John and get robbed. I also saw a few bull**** point deductions, as well.