should Marvin hagler really be undefeated?

[Rockin']

I disagree on Hagler getting robbed. Leonard won the fight. Razor close, but Leonard was the smarter fighter and he won.

Hagler's losses were early. Leonard has 2 losses I don't agree with.

That Camacho thing I don't really count and the Terry Norris loss shouldn't count as a bad thing against Leonard. Ray should've kept his ass retired really after the Hagler win. Of course he wouldn't have gotten the win over Duran again, but yeah he wouldn't have the draw to Hearns either. He already had a "No Mas" win over Duran and a stoppage win over Hearns.

Yeah Leonard tarnished his record with those late comeback losses. He will still go down as an all-time great but those loses will drop him abit I believe.

I thought he had won that fight with Hagler though. I watched it live many years ago when I was fairly young, maybe watching it now with what I have learned in the sport could change my decision about who won. But either way it is sure to be a fight that will be debated for years and years to come.........Rockin'

[masterdirector]

A loss or two never hurt Sugar Ray Robinsons image back in the day. And it never really hurt Joe Louis either. So why are undefeated records so important in todays game. Its the same game, but we now just try to hold our fighters to almost impossible standards. Ya know, if we let a loss or two slide off of our shoulders as they did back in the day, then these promoters might not be so afraid of letting their guys fight descent fighters on the way up. We are partly to blame for the lack of actually good fights coming off. Its our unreasonable expectations of our fighters of today. Think about it..............Rockin'

Easy to say if your favorite fighter isn't the one taking that loss or two.

Boxing is just that kind of sport though. Yeah it wasn't hurtful to Robinson to have a loss or two, but look at how many wins he had in comparison. And they fought A LOT more often. So it was like with baseball, you have 160+ games a year, lose 30 and nobody cares. If you have 20 matches a year, lose one, nobody'll hold it against you too much.

Boxing is one guy imposing his will over another guy, physically (as Max Kellerman always points out), so it is harder for boxing fans to deal with their guy losing even a single fight.

Like say the Pac vs. Morales fight. It feels like Pac could never beat Morales now. Also feels like Barrera would beat Pac cause we just saw Pac lose convincingly.

Okay damn I lost where I was even going fully, so I'm going to stop now. You'll probably know where I was headed. Sort of parallelly agreeing, but not fully.

But I blame the promoters and sanctioning bodies A LOT more than I blame the fans for matches not getting signed. If these didn't exist and there were a boxing league with legitimate rankings, we'd get those big matches all the time. We wouldn't have to wait for Zab Judah to fight bums like Cosme Rivera b/c Rivera would never be ranked #1 to begin with.

But that's idealistic and may never happen unfortunately.