Did Liston Take A Dive? Did He Cheat? Did Ali Win Cause He Is The Greatest?

[Bad Boy Dazza]

What TV show was it on?

i actually saw a video on tv of liston saying he took the dive lol it was on some espn **** i fg "he was sayin the muslums wer gonna kill him if he won lol " ..but anyway who cares

[TheGreatA]

What TV show was it on?

I think it was the documentary on Liston's life. I believe it was Liston's wife saying so.

Here's Liston's official explanation:

Sonny cleared his throat, sat up and began talking like a man who is discussing a painful subject for the absolute last time. "Clay caught me cold and the count was messed up, and that's all they was to it," he said. "Clay knocked me down with a good punch. Anybody can get caught cold in the first round, before you even work up a sweat. And when I was down, Clay stood right over me. No, I never blacked out, not for a second. But I wasn't gonna get up, either, not with him standin' over me. See, you can't get up without puttin' one hand on the floor, and so I couldn't protect myself, and he can hit me on the way up.

"So there was Walcott [Referee Jersey Joe Walcott] and Clay wrasslin' over me and Walcott finally got him to a corner or somethin', and then I got up and Clay come back and we started back to fightin' again.

"And Nat Fletcher [ Nat Fleischer, editor of The Ring Magazine] began wavin' his arms at ringside and Walcott stopped the fight. Nowadays Nat Fletcher says he was just callin' Walcott over to tell him that the timekeeper wanted to see him or somethin', but other people says it was Nat Fletcher stopped the fight.

"I was never counted out. I coulda got up even right after I was hit. And I still felt pretty good when I did get up. I mean I could still go on. What Walcott shoulda done, he shoulda sent Cassius to a neutral corner. When the referees call you out in the center of the ring before a fight, they tells you that: go to a neutral corner. And that's when they count you out, not with no fighter standin' right over you.

"They shouldn't have fighters refereein' no fights no way," Sonny added, now back in his horizontal position. "They should have people that don't get excited."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...66/6/index.htm

[Bad Boy Dazza]

Thanks GreatA.

[BritishBoxing92]

i dont know what to say since Liston was a good fighter and a hard hitter seeming asthough he KOd Floyd Patterson twice in the 1st round...but ali in the first fight ****ed him up and then in the rematch ali did KO

[dans]

So what really happened? In the movie "Ali", they portray liston as this mean dude, who when was losing used some sort of chemical to **** with Ali..

Some people think the mafia had something to do with it.. They told him take a dive or die.. Some think his Heroin overdose was a coverup of murder.. Liston hated needles as most should know..

Was it none of the above, and was Ali just that great? Did it not matter either way? Would Ali have won anyways?

I can't say I know for sure Liston didn't take a dive, but it's possible.

It doesn't really matter though because Ali dominated him the first time and the rematch was really a formality.

[Rabbit ♠]

[StarshipTrooper]

I think it was the documentary on Liston's life. I believe it was Liston's wife saying so.

Here's Liston's official explanation:

Sonny cleared his throat, sat up and began talking like a man who is discussing a painful subject for the absolute last time. "Clay caught me cold and the count was messed up, and that's all they was to it," he said. "Clay knocked me down with a good punch. Anybody can get caught cold in the first round, before you even work up a sweat. And when I was down, Clay stood right over me. No, I never blacked out, not for a second. But I wasn't gonna get up, either, not with him standin' over me. See, you can't get up without puttin' one hand on the floor, and so I couldn't protect myself, and he can hit me on the way up.

"So there was Walcott [Referee Jersey Joe Walcott] and Clay wrasslin' over me and Walcott finally got him to a corner or somethin', and then I got up and Clay come back and we started back to fightin' again.

"And Nat Fletcher [ Nat Fleischer, editor of The Ring Magazine] began wavin' his arms at ringside and Walcott stopped the fight. Nowadays Nat Fletcher says he was just callin' Walcott over to tell him that the timekeeper wanted to see him or somethin', but other people says it was Nat Fletcher stopped the fight.

"I was never counted out. I coulda got up even right after I was hit. And I still felt pretty good when I did get up. I mean I could still go on. What Walcott shoulda done, he shoulda sent Cassius to a neutral corner. When the referees call you out in the center of the ring before a fight, they tells you that: go to a neutral corner. And that's when they count you out, not with no fighter standin' right over you.

"They shouldn't have fighters refereein' no fights no way," Sonny added, now back in his horizontal position. "They should have people that don't get excited."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...66/6/index.htm

Thank you GreatA: Good stuff as always! I was unaware of Liston's description of what happend but it pretty much dovetails with my own conclusions on the matter. Walcott basically screwed the pooch and Fleischer had no business interferring. I've said it before: A fighter in knocked out when the REFEREE counts ten, NOT when the timekeeper (or anyone else watching) counts off ten seconds.

Poet

[Adamantium]

I personally belief Liston took a dive. If I remember correctly, Liston looked like he was going down before the punch even connected. Look at the way he fell, he fell forward, put his hands down, then rolled over. It all looked fake to me, why he did it? I dont know.
Also Liston had a granite jaw and Ali was one of the lightest punchers at hw.

[Rabbit ♠]

I personally belief Liston took a dive. If I remember correctly, Liston looked like he was going down before the punch even connected. Look at the way he fell, he fell forward, put his hands down, then rolled over. It all looked fake to me, why he did it? I dont know.
Also Liston had a granite jaw and Ali was one of the lightest punchers at hw.

He got tagged