Monte Barrett: "Nikolai Valuev Will Beat David Haye"

[Ravens Fan]

He has good lateral movement and good head movement. I think you badly under-estimate his ability.



I agree that his standard of opposition wasn't tremendous and that he didn't clear out the division as he likes to claim, but the point is that he won the lineal and Ring titles when he fought Mormeck, and in Mormeck's backyard. And although Haye effectively retired Mormeck, Mormeck was coming off a good UD against O'Neil Bell. Most people considered Mormeck to be "the man" at the time, and Haye beat "the man". He then unified against Maccarinelli, who was over-rated, but was generally rated in the top 3 at the time, so it was a legit defence.

And he moved up when he did because he had been having trouble making weight for a couple of years by then. He'd been planning the move to heavyweight long before he moved up, but wanted to win the lineal title first. He only took the Maccarinelli fight because people would have accused him of ducking if he hadn't, and because he was offered a good payday, but he had originally planned to move up earlier than he did.



He was the man because he beat the man, and in his own backyard.



The point was not that anyone thought Barrett was world class, and no one claimed that Barrett was a contender. The point of that fight was simply that he was a decent gatekeeper who had a reputation for destroying over-hyped prospects, so he was a reasonable testing-the-water fight for Haye's first fight at the weight.



It's perfectly normal for a lineal champion to move up in weight and immediately get a title shot without beating a legit contender first. It's happened literally hundreds of times. I don't understand why people hold that against Haye, when hundreds of other fighters have done the same thing. If Haye loses to Valuev, he'll be history. If he wins, he'll have proved he deserved his shot. Either way, it'll give Valuev a very good payday, which is the reason Valuev (and both Klitschkos) wanted to fight Haye. That's boxing, live with it.

I don't underestimate his ability I just think he is a brawler. I watched several of his fights and he tends to lead with left hooks. He wings punches and as I said earlier I have seen many UFC fighter that throw straighter punches then Haye does. Do you think he will get away with that when he fights a real heavyweight say like Wlad? He also gets winded look at him between the 4th and 5th round of the Barrett fight he was sucking wind. And as I stated before I don't like when fighters just pop in and out and fight who they want. If they want to do that why have a ranking system? Why have a top ten at all? I did not even like it when Sugar Ray kept coming out of retirement and fighting for a belt in a division were he never fought. He even fought for two belts in two different weights divisions that he never fought in when he fought Lalonde. What was it I believe Ray became a four division champ in one night and yet he had never fought in either division before that night. And by the way he never fought as a light heavy again after that night. And Ray was from my home state and I was always a fan but I eventually rooted against him because of his elitist attitude. So, it is just not Haye and no I don't have to accept it because I can always come this forum and ***** about it.

[IZONFIST]

i don't know we'll see in the ring

[paul750]

If Haye has that sort of power, he will stop even Valuev [providing he isn't stopped himself]. I'm certainly not a fan of Wladimir Klitschko, but one thing I sure as hell know is that he can punch when he lets his hands go. Haye is by no means a full package, but those hands of his could very well get him wins over most people not named Klitschko.

[Dave Rado]

I don't underestimate his ability I just think he is a brawler.

To say he's just a brawler, IMO, is seriously underestimating his ability. And I don't see how someone who fights off the back foot as often as he does can be called a brawler.

I did not even like it when Sugar Ray kept coming out of retirement and fighting for a belt in a division were he never fought. He even fought for two belts in two different weights divisions that he never fought in when he fought Lalonde.

Lalonde is a very bad analogy because what was bull**** about that fight was that he forced Lalonde to fight at a catchweight 7lb below the Light Heavyweight limit, which made him weight drained; and also the fact that the Light Heavyweight title was on the line even though the fight was at Super Middleweight.

A much better analogy would be the Leonard-Hagler fight. Did you object to that fight? If so, you're pretty much the only person who did. Did you object to Hatton giving Pacquiao a shot? How about Frazier giving Foster a shot? Did you object when Holmes gave Spinks a shot? Do you think Joey Maxim was wrong to give Ray Robinson a shot? Or Tarver, giving Hopkins a shot? What about Benitez and Duran? Or Barney Ross and Henry Armstrong? How about Joe Louis and Billy Conn? Those are much more accurate analogies. I'm not comparing Haye with any of those fighters, I'm just talking about the principle of the thing.

[Dave Rado]

If Haye has good lateral movement than I am a better songwriter than John Lennon and McCartney combined.

Wow, I want to hear some of your songs!

I'm not saying his footwork compares with Hopkins', but he's got enough lateral movement to cope with Valuev, IMO.

If you disagree, do you fancy a 20k bet on the fight?

[IZONFIST]

he has fought valuev so he knows what to expect

[Ravens Fan]

To say he's just a brawler, IMO, is seriously underestimating his ability. And I don't see how someone who fights off the back foot as often as he does can be called a brawler.



Lalonde is a very bad analogy because what was bull**** about that fight was that he forced Lalonde to fight at a catchweight 7lb below the Light Heavyweight limit, which made him weight drained; and also the fact that the Light Heavyweight title was on the line even though the fight was at Super Middleweight.

A much better analogy would be the Leonard-Hagler fight. Did you object to that fight? If so, you're pretty much the only person who did. Did you object to Hatton giving Pacquiao a shot? How about Frazier giving Foster a shot? Did you object when Holmes gave Spinks a shot? Do you think Joey Maxim was wrong to give Ray Robinson a shot? Or Tarver, giving Hopkins a shot? What about Benitez and Duran? Or Barney Ross and Henry Armstrong? How about Joe Louis and Billy Conn? Those are much more accurate analogies. I'm not comparing Haye with any of those fighters, I'm just talking about the principle of the thing.

I don't know where to begin? First off, I don't care if Haye dances like Fred Astaire when he is in the ring or floats like a butterfly like Ali. What I see for the most part is a fighter who wings his punches and as I stated earlier HE LEADS WITH A LEFT HOOK ON A REGULAR BASIS So, to me he tends to brawl a lot because I don't know how else to define it. And I am no expert but I would wager a guess that his stamina problems might have something to do with him winging and looping punches while going for a home run with most of his punches. And when his opponent is not knocked out in a few rounds with all the home run swings then he runs into stamina problems. Again look at the Monte fight between the 4th and 5th round Haye was suckin wind big time and Monte, who was getting beat to a pulp, was not breathing all that heavy at all.

You also stated earlier if Haye beats Valuev he deserved to fight him and to me that is bull****. To me it is like letting the Patriots play in the Super Bowl every year because you know they can beat any team in the NFL so why play the 16 game season. And I don't care if it is just the way boxing is or if it is tradition just like if the Patriots want to play in the Super Bowl, they have to earn it by playing sixteen games and then the palyoffs. So, in my opinion if someone is going to fight for the heavyweight title they should earn it by fighting maybe a contender or two and not the Monte Barretts of the world.

And as far as the other fighters you mentioned I will say this in their defense on where I stand. Most if not all of the fighters you mentioned were at least dominate fighters in their respective division and were fighting champs. Take Foster for example. Foster won the light heavy title when he beat **** Tiger in 1968 and between then and when he fought Frazier in 1970 he fought twelve times and defended his title four times. As compared to Haye who won the title defended it once and has exactly nine rounds of championship boxing under his belt, or less then twenty seven minutes. Then he he fights a scrub heavyweight and sits out for a year and then after fighting a total of fifteen rounds within a three period he gets what? You know what, it gets him a shot at the heavyweight title. And if you believe that is fair I am sorry but I don't and never will agree with you.

And going back to ole Monte for a moment. You said he was the gate keeper of the heavyweight division and was a good test for Haye. Ok, he was a good test but should Haye fight for the title because he beat him when the only quality names that Monte has ever won against was a 40 year Greg Page and a 44 year old Tim Witherspoon. So, to me the only test Monte presented was the fact that he weighed over 220 pounds. Now where do I go? I will go back to the Sugar Ray-Lelonde affair.

I picked Sugar Ray's fight with Lalonde in an attempt to be unbiased because I was actually a fan of Rays. And I also thought that there was no better example because it was so strange. In this fight you had both Sugar and Donnie fighting for title in a division were neither one of them had fought before this fight. Some may argue that it was the WBC inaugural belt they were fighting for so there were no ranking in the division. Which may have been true if not for the fact that Murry Sutherland had won the first Super Middle belt in history four years earlier when he beat Ernie Singletary for the IBF belt. So, there had to be at least some world rankings and some super middle weights floating around between 1984 and 1988 that deserved a shot at a title more so then Ray Leonard did. Because the only reason Ray got the shot, was, well because he was Ray Leonard. So, I don't understand how you could think that fight as a bad example of what I am talking about. When you have Ray winning not one, but two titles in two divisions that he had never fought in before then and on the same night.

You also mentioned Paquiao so I will tell you how I feel about him. In his last three and his upcoming fight the Pacman has won two belts and has a chance to win a third in divisions he had never fought in before those particular fights. Well, he fought a wash up Oscar so I guess his fight with Cotto will be his second at the welter limit. So, when the Pacman knocked out Hatton he became the lineal jr welt champ without any other fights in the division and he will most likely never fight in the division again. So, iwill ask were does that leave the fighter rated in that division that may have earned a title shot but the champs are to busy jumping around to various weight divisions fighting super fights?

In closing I would that someone mentioned on this thread that Dave owned. I find that funny because I don't feel owned when I only opinion that Haye is a brawler as far as for the rest of the information it is fact and can hardly be be disputed. In the end I am still a big boxing fan and I will still sit and watch and scream at fighters who fight for titles they did not earn and i will enjoy like the rest of you I just don't have to agree with it.

[Klitschko2011]

Can't remember Barrett knocking Haye down cleanly.

The glass chinned Haye ADMITTED that he was knocked down by Barrett.

"He definitely came to win and put me down with a good shot. I expected to get knocked down and I did."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/solpda/ifs_spo...00/7727154.stm

[billionaire]

i hope valuev kicks hayes ass.....the british media is so disrespectful of other boxers......

[$partacus]

The glass chinned Haye ADMITTED that he was knocked down by Barrett.

"He definitely came to win and put me down with a good shot. I expected to get knocked down and I did."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/solpda/ifs_spo...00/7727154.stm

Vitali admitted that Lewis was out of shape, Vitali got owned by an old out of shape Lewis.