Comments Thread For: Five alive: The P4P king debate runs deeper than you think

[DeeMoney]

There is NO case to be made for David Benavidez, Shakur Stevenson or Jesse "Bam" Rodriguez to be #1.
None of those guys have the resume, not have they beat a P4P top ranked fighter to claim anything.




How many hurdles does Inoue have to jump over to make you happy?

You are missing the point. He is arguing about P4P right now, not historically speaking. So there has to be a point where a fighter's resume in the past is no longer impactful to who they are right now (and most likely a diminishing point).

Think of it this way, if Sugar Ray Leonard came out of retirement right now and started fighting, would you rank him #1 P4P? This may sound like a strawman argument, but based on your proposed logic of resume, then you'd have to. He beat prime Hearns, beat Hagler at MW, beat just after prime Duran. To use your own words, " How many hurdles does he have to jump over to make you happy?"

Now, obviously that is extreme, but hopefully it helps you understand the point of what is being said here. We are not evaluating who is the best historically as of this point, ie who has had the best career as of today. Rather, who is the best at the moment. Thats not to say you still can't rate Inoue #1, he is clearly that good, just that his full body of work should not play a role. I'd say for him, as for all fighters, there has to be a diminishing impact for anything over 5 years, and definitely no impact for fights over 8 years old- if not sooner. Moreover, you probably have to take into account the eye test there, as not all fighters are granted the same opportunities.

[JOITATS]

You are missing the point. He is arguing about P4P right now, not historically speaking. So there has to be a point where a fighter's resume in the past is no longer impactful to who they are right now (and most likely a diminishing point).

Think of it this way, if Sugar Ray Leonard came out of retirement right now and started fighting, would you rank him #1 P4P? This may sound like a strawman argument, but based on your proposed logic of resume, then you'd have to. He beat prime Hearns, beat Hagler at MW, beat just after prime Duran. To use your own words, " How many hurdles does he have to jump over to make you happy?"

Now, obviously that is extreme, but hopefully it helps you understand the point of what is being said here. We are not evaluating who is the best historically as of this point, ie who has had the best career as of today. Rather, who is the best at the moment. Thats not to say you still can't rate Inoue #1, he is clearly that good, just that his full body of work should not play a role. I'd say for him, as for all fighters, there has to be a diminishing impact for anything over 5 years, and definitely no impact for fights over 8 years old- if not sooner. Moreover, you probably have to take into account the eye test there, as not all fighters are granted the same opportunities.

You're missing the point.

No one is basing the #1 P4P criteria on things they did 5 years ago.

In your own words "who is the best at the moment"?
Inoue just beat the #6 ranked P4P guy a couple weeks ago.
In terms of recent performances, how do you get higher than that?

Neither Bam, Benevidez, nor Shakur have done that.
Do you think beating Zurdo is a higher win than that?
Puma Martinez? LOL
Teo wasn't even in the top 3 in his own wgt class, nor did anyone consider him a P4P guy when they fought.
Usyk hasn't fought in a year.


Recent performance. There's not much of an argument.

[DeeMoney]

You're missing the point.

No one is basing the #1 P4P criteria on things they did 5 years ago.

In your own words "who is the best at the moment"?
Inoue just beat the #6 ranked P4P guy a couple weeks ago.
In terms of recent performances, how do you get higher than that?

Neither Bam, Benevidez, nor Shakur have done that.
Do you think beating Zurdo is a higher win than that?
Puma Martinez? LOL
Teo wasn't even in the top 3 in his own wgt class, nor did anyone consider him a P4P guy when they fought.
Usyk hasn't fought in a year.


Recent performance. There's not much of an argument.

How did I miss the point, we are saying the same thing. I even wrote that Inoue could be deemed #1

I was just citing the original point that referenced resume and not recent resume

[williamonhierhol]

Wenn man nur nach Bilanz, Titeln, Können und aktuellen Leistungen geht, bleiben eigentlich nur Naoya Inoue und Oleksandr Usyk ganz oben. Viele andere sind zwar talentiert, haben aber noch nicht genug Top-Gegner im Rekord. Shakur wird oft kritisiert, weil ihm große roobet deutschland Namen fehlen, trotz seines Könnens. Usyk hingegen hat sich konsequent gegen die Besten seiner Gewichtsklassen bewiesen und dadurch seinen Status gefestigt.

[chardloo]

If we're basing this off of resume, accolades, skill, and recent performances. It's either Inoue or Usyk. A lot of these guys are great fighters and rightfully ranked lower even if it's unfair that they haven't been in the ring with anyone. Much like ufasnake rises above the competition by consistently delivering at the highest level, Shakur, as great as he is, hasn't fought anyone. Teo is probably his best win but he needs to take on the likes of Tank, Roach, Schofield, Muratalla, Andy Cruz, Keyshawn, Hitchins. I'm sure Josh Padley is a nice guy but c'mon. At least Usyk has faced the best the division had to offer at the time of their fights.

The pound for pound debate is genuinely wide open right now with a legitimate case for all five. Usyk has the resume, Inoue finishes everyone, Benavidez is a wrecking machine, Stevenson is technically elite, and Rodriguez is doing extraordinary things at his size. No clear consensus pick makes this one of the most interesting P4P conversations in years.