Comments Thread For: Daily Bread Mailbag: Coping with a defeat, eighties greats, the Mayweather-Pacquiao debate

[SouthpawRight]

Smash by Bread's reasoning Larry is 2x greater the heavyweight than Oleksandr

I believe Terence Crawford is an all-time great. And while his resume is not exceptional his accomplishments are. If a fighter doesn’t have a resume filled with HOF wins then their resume should be long and consistent with Ring rated top 10 wins and lots of title fights. Crawford has that. Larry Holmes is another fighter who is considered an ATG but if you look at his resume close, he was consistent for seven years and 19 title defenses. But his resume doesn’t have the HOF and ATG on there that one would think.

Holmes’s best win is probably Ken Norton in 1978. Norton was a great fighter but he was well past his best by 1978. After that Holmes’s best win was either Gerry Cooney or Tim Witherspoon. Holmes struggled mightily with Witherspoon. He also never unified in a two-belt era. He did beat several of the fighters who held the WBA title while he held the WBC title. But overall just stating the case. Holmes is considered one of the five or six best heavyweights ever but his resume is not on par some of the other greats who have several close or prime HOF wins.

Bread’s response: Interesting take. I don’t have a strong opinion either way, I’m just surprised at your take. I feel like you’re putting a lot of pressure on Deontay Wilder to save boxing and he hasn’t looked anywhere near the Wilder of a few years ago. Usyk is one of the best fighters ever. He has a case for being a top ten heavyweight ever. If Wilder beats him, it would be a remarkable accomplishment.

[SouthpawRight]

Smash


'Fat Dave' may not be so fat after all.

if a 33 cut is the reg, then his 205 to 175 was only 30

Floyd and Bivol play the weight game more like the 90s boxers

I think fighters today concentrate more on strength and conditioning and lifting weights. You see 180lbs men fighting at 147lbs. Whereas in the 90s fighters concentrated more on boxing, running, hitting the bags and skipping rope. So you have 160lbs men fighting at 147lbs. I think the changes come with the advancements of sports science in terms of cutting weight and what type of conditioning you look for.

[SouthpawRight]

Smash superior DEFENSE is a big edge when it comes to predictions between two aggressive styles per Bread. the better defender gets hurt less

Fat Dave-Fat Gilbert

I have certain instinctual cues I have picked up from historical match ups. In match ups of violent punchers and fighters with violent temperaments the fighter with the more clever defense usually wins. Nothing is 100% in terms of outcomes but if you look historically of the type of match up I’m speaking of the more clever defense usually wins. So let’s look. Mike McCallum vs Julian Jackson, Julio Cesar Chavez vs Edwin Rosario, Marvin Hagler vs Tommy Hearns. In each of these cases the fighter with the more clever defense won. One could add that the fighter with the better chin also won and that may be true but their chins weren’t hit as solid because of the defense.

Duran has the best defense I’ve seen for a fighter as offensively dynamic as him. He has every layer of defense except exceptional length which got him in trouble at the higher weights but not at lightweight. So while I believe this is an even match up and Williams is right with him. In these types of violent affairs the fighter who takes some of the steam off their opponent’s punches a little more usually pulls it out.

[SouthpawRight]

need to add that was written by the fan NOT Coach Bread

Coach Bread ranking criteria is advanced. instead of just looking at resumes he focuses on records which also includes losses

Holyfield being one of my favorite fighters has nothing to do with me putting him at #10 on my all decade of the 1980s P4P list. And I have no issue explaining why I ranked him over Whitaker and Duran in the 1980s.

Duran had three of the best wins of the decade vs Ray Leonard, Davey Moore and Iran Barkley. But he also lost SEVEN times in the 1980s to Ray Leonard 2x, Wilfred Benitez, Kirkland Laing, Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns and Robbie Sims. Hagler was a great loss. A lightweight taking a top five ever middleweight the 15-round distance in a close fight is a great loss. But he quit vs Leonard and was shutout vs Leonard. Hearns knocked him out cold. Benitez outboxed him. Laing had no business beating him. And the Robbie Sims fight was razor close, that wasn’t such a bad loss.

My point is we can’t just look at Duran’s great wins of the 1980s. We also have to look at his low points in the same time span to balance things out. I considered him for my list but he had too many bad losses during the decade.

Bread’s response: If you tell me Floyd is higher, I don’t argue because Floyd beat Manny head to head. And he went undefeated in the same era Manny took several losses. I won’t say being undefeated doesn’t count because it’s does. It doesn’t mean EVERYTHING but it does mean SOMETHING.

[The D3vil]

Kathlolo, you gotta write a book, man