24 years since the last American heavyweight champion, soon to be 25

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  • TMLT87
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    #31
    Originally posted by kafkod

    Yanks don't realise how popular rugby is worldwide, especially Down Under.
    Yeah and in the Aussies case its union, league AND AFL taking the majority of bigger athletes over boxing, and they have less than a tenth of the population of the US.

    England has been doing well with HW boxers in recent times, they also currently have a UFC HW champ, this is in spite of rugby union getting the lions share of HW sized talent in the south and midlands of the country and rugby league getting it in the north, and again, the US has about 5x as many people.

    Russia and most of the Eastern Euro countries prioritize basketball and hockey over combat sports too. Even when it comes to combat sports they put about as much into wrestling and MMA as they do boxing. Once again with smaller populations than the US.

    Its all just excuse making. I'd say the main reason the US fell off initially was the fall of the iron curtain and subsequent influx of tons of fighters from some of the strongest hotbeds of combat sports. As well as just general globalisation across the board. The end of American dominance then lead to Americans losing interest in boxing, which in turn escalated the decline even further.

    We've seen the same thing happen more recently and even more starkly in MMA. When the UFC first started expanding internationally in the late 00s almost every UFC title fight/main event featured at least one American, often both fighters were, and at least half of every divisions top 10 was American, now there isnt a single male champion from America.

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    • Dr Z
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      #32
      Originally posted by PRINCEKOOL

      To conclude: So the point I am making is? I honestly believe American boxing has the talent to be better 'but there is culture in the nation, which in my opinion does not always support athletes to be their best'.

      Sometimes you see this culture thing appear in other countries around the world sometimes even in British boxing 'with fighters like Dave Allen and Tyson Fury. When such fighters have half decent training camps, the media molly coddles them and praises them. It is really unnecessary. But for the most part fighters in British Boxing do seem to have a solid work ethic'.

      Like Teddy Atlas states? 'Boxing is Life. It is not a 12 week training camp; it is 365 days per year. It is as simple as that. I think American Heavyweight Boxing will improve when the calibre of athlete improves in terms of work ethic that competes in the sport' etc.
      To conclude we have had crappy heavyweights for 20 years. The money to support the fighters and the promotional support are A+ in the USA.

      The problem is lack of talent first.

      Who is the best USA heavyweight now and 20 years ago from the USA?

      The international heavyweights have made USA heavyweights a footnote as pros and amateurs.

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      • NihonJim
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        #33
        Originally posted by Dr Z

        To conclude we have had crappy heavyweights for 20 years. The money to support the fighters and the promotional support are A+ in the USA.

        The problem is lack of talent first.

        Who is the best USA heavyweight now and 20 years ago from the USA?

        The international heavyweights have made USA heavyweights a footnote as pros and amateurs.
        I think the same talent is there but US boxing for whatever reason isn't finding it.

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        • Dr Z
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          #34
          Originally posted by NihonJim

          I think the same talent is there but US boxing for whatever reason isn't finding it.
          Maybe. But the talent is not good enough for the past 20 years. With 100's of fighter's going pro since 2005, finding it should not be too hard.

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          • TheProudLunatic
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            #35
            Originally posted by TMLT87

            Cricket is **** but at the end of the day its the somewhat internationally relevant version of baseball.

            Like I said if you go outside of the US and follow the sports/sports media the lack of American relevance/presence in most of what people are paying attention to is probably surprising to many because it all seems so big and important within the US. America is a bubble.
            They seem to embrace our sports.
            And pushing our sports would not be in their best interest.
            Still, America is the standard.

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            • TMLT87
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              #36
              Originally posted by TheProudLunatic

              They seem to embrace our sports.
              And pushing our sports would not be in their best interest.
              Still, America is the standard.
              Basketball and hockey are embraced in some countries, but I dont see them as "American" sports anymore than soccer is a "British" sport at this point, they are international sports now. Especially hockey which has always been more of a Canadian thing but situated more so in America just because its a neighbouring country thats also a much bigger market.

              The NFL has actually been pushed quite a lot internationally over the years, but it never really lands for some reason.

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              • TheProudLunatic
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                #37
                Originally posted by TMLT87

                Basketball and hockey are embraced in some countries, but I dont see them as "American" sports anymore than soccer is a "British" sport at this point, they are international sports now. Especially hockey which has always been more of a Canadian thing but situated more so in America just because its a neighbouring country thats also a much bigger market.

                The NFL has actually been pushed quite a lot internationally over the years, but it never really lands for some reason.
                NBA is def an American thing
                Easily accessible due to only needing a round ball that bounces.
                Similarly with soccer/keekball
                Hockey has a bunch of equipment and players that needs transporting
                Similarly with NFL.

                I'll never know why soccer is so big since it's so boring
                Run, keek, run some more..........

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                • TMLT87
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                  #38
                  Originally posted by TheProudLunatic

                  NBA is def an American thing
                  Easily accessible due to only needing a round ball that bounces.
                  Similarly with soccer/keekball
                  Hockey has a bunch of equipment and players that needs transporting
                  Similarly with NFL.

                  I'll never know why soccer is so big since it's so boring
                  Run, keek, run some more..........
                  NBA is American based but I see it as an international league these days given the amount of foreign players and fans. There hasnt been an American MVP in almost a decade. Basketball in general, like hockey, has quite a bit of stuff going on outside of the NBA/NHL/North America too. Quite a few major soccer teams also have basketball teams under the same umbrella.

                  As for soccers popularity, its simplicity and accessibility I guess. Its easy to understand at a basic level (but has scope for some tactical depth), doesnt require a lot of equipment, you dont need to have any particular size/body type to play it, and you dont need to withstand or dish out violence. It is also, to be fair, a very skilled, distinctive and aesthetically pleasing game, although its not the most exciting.

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                  • TheProudLunatic
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                    #39
                    Originally posted by TMLT87

                    NBA is American based but I see it as an international league these days given the amount of foreign players and fans. There hasnt been an American MVP in almost a decade. Basketball in general, like hockey, has quite a bit of stuff going on outside of the NBA/NHL/North America too. Quite a few major soccer teams also have basketball teams under the same umbrella.

                    As for soccers popularity, its simplicity and accessibility I guess. Its easy to understand at a basic level (but has scope for some tactical depth), doesnt require a lot of equipment, you dont need to have any particular size/body type to play it, and you dont need to withstand or dish out violence. It is also, to be fair, a very skilled, distinctive and aesthetically pleasing game, although its not the most exciting.
                    NBA will be an American sport until foreign players outnumber American players.
                    Trophies won notwithstanding.
                    We are not talking about a team(s) made up solely of players from another country vs the rest of the NBA.

                    "American football teams have the most personnel due to the large number of players on the roster, the extensive coaching staff, and support staff like trainers and equipment managers. While a 53-man roster is the standard in the NFL, the total number of staff on the sidelines, including coaches, medical staff, and support personnel, can exceed 100 people."

                    Not factoring equipment, NFL making weekly trips to foreign countries would not be feasible.

                    Soccer is less boring to watch than golf.
                    Playing it.....meh
                    But yeah
                    It's popularity, as I stated, comes from anyone with 2 legs being able to play it.
                    A large ball that bounces is pretty much all you need.

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