Comments Thread For: Francis Ngannou expects Deontay Wilder talks to begin soon

[Willow The Wisp]

Royce Gracie, a heavyweight? I haven't watched MMA in a long time...when did that happen? I know he fought in some openweight tournaments, but I didn't think anyone would qualify the man as a heavyweight.

Of course!
Weight classes came later. He beat Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock. Best of the first pioneer big men. History.

[TMLT87]

Of course!
Weight classes came later. He beat Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock. Best of the first pioneer big men. History.

People were wising up to his game pretty quick though, he saw the writing on the wall which is why he GTFO fast and disappeared for 5 years. If he had still been around a year or two later when guys like Kerr, Randy and Vitor showed up he would have been in deep ****.

[Willow The Wisp]

———

I was responding to TMLT87 and you chimed in

So how long was Ngannou trained in boxing?

I chimed in to an erroneous supposition that implied that Ngannou wasn't a boxer; with, therefore, the implication that he was instead a wrestler, BJJ black belt, Muay Thai fighter, or...something else besides a boxer.


In truth, he's a home grown fighter built for MMA. A Boxer (!) With some specialized training tacked on.


So the answer to what you've asked me...
Since he was a kid. Most of the time, he is still, and always has been training boxing, boxing, boxing, utilizing his prime talent under rules that allow them and much more.

He's been put through some very difficult paces working years now with Extreme Couture, and continues to this day acquiring enough knowledge of Muay Thai, Freestyle Wrestling, Submission Grappling and miscellaneous strikes in order to round his style out, fill in the gaps, practicing how to blend these, and know what's coming at him in the cage.

If you believe that he would do well at, say, the Abu Dhabi Combat Club championships or world IBJJF Mundials championship; than I'm all wrong of course. But, I don't believe he would.

So largely, he's used the cross training knowledge for it's defensive advantages, and his western boxing remains the only thing that is genuinely exceptional about him.

So I don't know where this "he's not a boxer" claim is coming from!

I guess young fans can be pretty tribal. The low-T generation.


But Witness that there are dozens and dozens and dozens of much better kickers, shooters, wrestlers and sub grapplers in the sport than Francis Ngannou will ever be, but none of them can beat him in an MMA rules fight! Bottom line.

Why would that be?
Not rocket science at all.

Retired Ray Mercer in his first non-worked MMA fight vs. A top 10 ranked two time UFC champion 15 years his junior. Mercer needs 9 seconds in the cage with him.
The UFCs top star and Olympic Judo medalist blitzed by and ruined by Boxing great Holly Holm, who like Ngannou and unlike Mercer, had good cross training, and the list goes on for cross training fighters crossing between sports. Some succeed and others don't.

What ever made anyone think that fighters are not all cut from the same cloth?
Makes zero sense.


You just decide how high on the payrate scale you think you're capable of climbing to, and you tailor your training for the rules you choose to complete under. This is widely known stuff in combat sports; and some day, when you see UFC champions start to make Canelo money, you'll see an evening out of the pull for the best natural fighting talent available, because money does talk.
Again, this is not a novel concept.

Ngannou had to try. He shatcanned his UFC title to try, and apparently, he wants to try again.

Let him try!

[t_dirtydizzawg]

Of course!
Weight classes came later. He beat Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock. Best of the first pioneer big men. History.

So your criteria for being considered a heavyweight, is if someone defeated a heavyweight in a fight? I suppose I was confused, since most people put the emphasis on the weight of the fighter, not the weight of the fighter's opponent; but hey, it's your list, you can make it however you want. Have a nice day.

[Willow The Wisp]

People were wising up to his game pretty quick though, he saw the writing on the wall which is why he GTFO fast and disappeared for 5 years. If he had still been around a year or two later when guys like Kerr, Randy and Vitor showed up he would have been in deep ****.

Visible evolution in those early days with almost every show! Rolls, Royce & Rickson where total mysteries during the Gracie Challenge days, but that fell away pretty quickly once the shows stopped being infomercials. Severn, Ruas, Coleman, Smith, Frye, etc. Everyone brought new ideas to test. What worked well became replicated.


Thats how Boxing developed c. 1680 -1740, and Catch, c. 1880 -1912. It was fun being a part of that.

[TMLT87]

Visible evolution in those early days with almost every show! .

Yeah the sheer rapidness of it was really something. It starts off with guys like Harold Howard and "ninjas" in jeans with fictional 300-0 records then within a few years you're seeing multiple guys who would still be top 10 level today.