The REAL Reasons why some people punch harder

[billeau2]

Usyk nearly kod fury not to mention guys like cunningham and ngannou dropping him. None of them are punchers. Fury just goes down a lot. Wilder admitted to picking an oit out shape fury in the first fight and couldn't put him away

Baloney. Usyk had Fury off balance because he was exhausted. Wilder put Fury down... Fury never had the opportunity to try to avoid Wilder. Ngannou can hit and Cunningham scored a flash knock down. This observation of yours is EXACTLY what makes you such a casual... The fine distinctions do not matter to you one bit. You have no capacity to see the difference between being hit by a puncher and taking an accumulation of shots and getting cornered trying NOT to take a count.

[billeau2]

Nope, it's kinematic chains.


Dunno why y'all love to guess at a physics question. It's simple and easy.


Why CAN'T nunchucks transfer as much power as an equally sized unbroken stick? Kinematic chains.

Why CAN'T a jab equal a jolt thrown by the same man? Kinematic chains.

Why would you use the much smaller weighed and sized ball-peen hammer to shape metals when the sledge is available? Kinematic chains.

Why would you sail into wind and expect to go forward? Kinematic chains



It's basic physics, I don't say that to point out y'all dumb, I'm sure it was just not presented to you, point is you can understand it, it's easy, just look it up and then watch boxing over again with new eyes.

Reading Jack Dempsey's book on punching one can grasp the concept of weight and the chain... It is indeed the kinematic chain. How we use alignment, leverage, and balance... Forming a straight connection from the ground to the target!

[billeau2]

Kinda funny that you're talking about physics, and using a physics buzzword, but the physical laws behind your example are all very different, and some actually have fugh-all to do with kinematic chains.

For reference, a kinematic chain refers to an interconnected system of rigid bodies connected by joints that has a specific type of determined motion. While that would indeed apply to the human body, it has little to do with a sail in wind, as those are unconnected by a joint, and the explanation has everything to do with force vectors.

Nunchucks don't transfer power in the same way as a rigid stick because upon impact, the target exerts and equal and opposite reaction (Newton's third law) and force transfer is affected by structure. They're only impacting with effectively half as much mass, BUT they're also capable of moving faster than a stick, which can, when properly used, actually increase the amount of force relative to an equally sized stick. There's a very specific technique to using them, and frankly, they're IMO a less useful weapon if only because a stick is a much more accessible and straightforward weapon. But in any case, saying it's due to kinematic chains is rather silly, because they're both effectively kinematic chain systems, just one has an additional joint, or series of joints, depending on how you look at it, which affects the math. Just saying kinematic chains doesn't actually explain the phenomenon in the slightest.

The ball peen vs the sledge is about mass and efficiency at the task, and frankly, as someone who's been making knives and swords as a hobby for the last 15 years, many smiths use ball peen hammers far more often then sledgehammers. Work that would potentially involve a sledge is either done with a specific style of forging hammer if you're doing old school, or with a power hammer or press if you're serious. The type of hammer you use is much more about shape to determine HOW you move the metal, and the most common forging hammers are all 1.5 lb or under for most smiths, not heavy sledges.

I agree that anyone who wants to understand the physics of boxing better should read about kinematic chains, but they're not exactly simple and easy things. The human body has around 350 joints, so a chain equation for a punch or a kick that is done with proper technique would be quite long...

Crimson... Your correct about the interplay of speed and Newton's law regarding inertia... Nunchucks violate the chain because they have no structural integrity upon impact. But when we are transfering force, the joints and position of the body parts involved all can lose tremendous amounts of force when not structurally sound... like a flared elbow, a knee at an angle that does not support, or... the timing of bringing those bodies into play by extending and catching the target at maximum extension, just as the foot (the weight) hits the ground. Which has the effect of transferring force with little return into the striking medium.

Our alignment, the speed of delivery, the timing of delivery are all indispensable to maximizing force. What many people neglect to realize is how much force comes back upon us precisely because of Neutons law you cited. If we are not ground that force destroys the integrity of our structure and robs us of power. You have to really look for it when hitting a bag though... it is not obvious.

[daggum]

Crimson... Your correct about the interplay of speed and Newton's law regarding inertia... Nunchucks violate the chain because they have no structural integrity upon impact. But when we are transfering force, the joints and position of the body parts involved all can lose tremendous amounts of force when not structurally sound... like a flared elbow, a knee at an angle that does not support, or... the timing of bringing those bodies into play by extending and catching the target at maximum extension, just as the foot (the weight) hits the ground. Which has the effect of transferring force with little return into the striking medium.

Our alignment, the speed of delivery, the timing of delivery are all indispensable to maximizing force. What many people neglect to realize is how much force comes back upon us precisely because of Neutons law you cited. If we are not ground that force destroys the integrity of our structure and robs us of power. You have to really look for it when hitting a bag though... it is not obvious.

did willders power get su-cked into another dimension when he fought top fighters? people say power is the last thing to go but wilder proves that wrong

[TelMex]

Proper mechanics and a strong base will make anyone punch harder. Nolan Ryan attributed his 100 mph fastball to his legs. Of course, there are freakish exceptions like Wilder.

[Elastic Recoilz]

If you look at the size of GGG's forearms, they are absolutely huge, thicker than most peoples upper arm and this is part of the reason he punches hard. Beterbiev punches hard because as well as being very strong he has incredible wrist strength. In general though other things contribute like, distance, technique, positioning and synchronising body movement when throwing a shot. Also when a shot is thrown with the intention of punching through the target instead of just chucking a shot out there the impact is more significant.

[daggum]

Proper mechanics and a strong base will make anyone punch harder. Nolan Ryan attributed his 100 mph fastball to his legs. Of course, there are freakish exceptions like Wilder.

wilder has a 25 percent ko percentage against top 10(ring) ranked opponents. people just fell for the obvious grift of matching him super soft and the obvious marketing ploy of labeling him the hardest puncher ever or some other nonsense. when you look at it the only ranked guy he ko'd was a 40 year old ortiz so even that isnt super impressive but lets give him credit for that i suppose, oh yeah and some opponents like malik scott took clear dives so that makes you question what was going on

[real raw]

wilder has a 25 percent ko percentage against top 10(ring) ranked opponents. people just fell for the obvious grift of matching him super soft and the obvious marketing ploy of labeling him the hardest puncher ever or some other nonsense. when you look at it the only ranked guy he ko'd was a 40 year old ortiz so even that isnt super impressive but lets give him credit for that i suppose, oh yeah and some opponents like malik scott took clear dives so that makes you question what was going on

I think a 25 percent ko ratio against top 10 opponents is pretty damned high!

[crimsonfalcon07]

Crimson... Your correct about the interplay of speed and Newton's law regarding inertia... Nunchucks violate the chain because they have no structural integrity upon impact. But when we are transfering force, the joints and position of the body parts involved all can lose tremendous amounts of force when not structurally sound... like a flared elbow, a knee at an angle that does not support, or... the timing of bringing those bodies into play by extending and catching the target at maximum extension, just as the foot (the weight) hits the ground. Which has the effect of transferring force with little return into the striking medium.

Our alignment, the speed of delivery, the timing of delivery are all indispensable to maximizing force. What many people neglect to realize is how much force comes back upon us precisely because of Neutons law you cited. If we are not ground that force destroys the integrity of our structure and robs us of power. You have to really look for it when hitting a bag though... it is not obvious.

100%. Bad structure is such a big problem for many fighters. I see many, even at high levels, who hit with lots of power, but it then gets absorbed by their poor structure. Even really high level MMA coaches like Trevor Wittman (who's a very good coach, don't get me wrong), put out the occasional video in which they throw, say, a cross and have the ends of their toes on the rear foot dragging across the ground.

Another big advantage to the timing you mentioned earlier is that you get the gravitational acceleration of your body mass participating in the strike, which can increase power in significant ways. Inoue is very consistent at landing his shots in that way, which probably contributes to his "monstrous" power.

[Butt stuff]

GGG also had monster forearms. His forearm workout was insane. And he wasn’t a fast twitch puncher, he was a consistent thudder of a workhorse.

I don’t know why that would improve punch power though, maybe it made for a more solid, compact punch? Stronger, firmer grip, and extra turnover at the end of the punch?