Comments Thread For: Fighting Words: All-time debate shouldnt distract from Oleksandr Usyks accomplishments

[Echo Falls]

Whoa Kemosabe....Let's not compare Usyk's championship run to Tysons. Usyk only had to go through Chaz Witherspoon and Derek Chisora before getting a shot at AJ. Tyson had to go through 27 contenders in a two year period before KOing Trevor Berbick to get his title. Then he had to defend his strap against James "Bonecrusher" Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tyrell Biggs, Larry Holmes, Michael Spinks and Frank Bruno before he finally lost to Koke-cane.....I mean Buster Douglas. Listen I like Usyk but he in no way compares or survives against that era from the 70s-90s.

Those 27 ‘contenders’ Tyson faced before Berbick were 27 tomato cans.

Sep 86		Alfonzo Ratliff	21 3 0	W
Aug 86		Jose Ribalta	22 3 1	W
Jul 86		Marvis Frazier	16 1 0	W
Jul 86		Lorenzo Boyd	16 5 0	W
Jun 86		William Hosea	12 3 0	W
Jun 86		Reggie Gross	18 4 0	W
May 86		Mitch Green	16 1 1	W
May 86		James Tillis	31 8 0	W
Mar 86		Steve Zouski	25 9 0	W
Feb 86		Jesse Ferguson	14 1 0	W
Jan 86		Mike Jameson	13 10 0	W
Jan 86		David Jaco	19 5 0	W
Dec 85		Mark Young	9 6 0	W
Dec 85		Sammy Scaff	13 6 0	W
Nov 85		Conroy Nelson	15 7 2	W
Nov 85		Eddie Richardson	10 2 0	W
Nov 85		Sterling Benjamin	5 6 1	W
Oct 85		Robert Colay	7 7 1	W
Oct 85		Donnie Long	15 3 0	W
Sep 85		Michael Johnson	11 5 0	W
Aug 85		Lorenzo Canady	3 0 0	W
Jul 85		Larry Sims	3 16 2	W
Jul 85		John Alderson	3 0 0	W
Jun 85		Ricardo Spain	1 0 0	W
May 85		Don Halpin	10 18 0	W
Apr 85		Trent Singleton	1 3 0	W
Mar 85		Hector Mercedes

[DClefthook]

Ok I can see you don't understand nuance so I'm going to explain it to you like a six year old: You see Usyk only had two fights when he turned HW against one American boxer who you would label a tomato can and then another against a British boxer who you would also label a tomato can. Then he got a chance to fight for 3 of the 4 HW titles which a lot of fans would consider unjustified. Mike Tyson, on the other hand, fought 27 times against fighters that we would normally attach the label "tomato can" too if it were only three or four of them. But when you fight 27 within a two year period well we have to rethink this whole tomato can thing.

[BodyBagz]

There is no debate
Usyk is not an ATG
He is the best HW of HIS era....which just so happens to be the weakest HW era of all time.
I'm a big fan but I have to be honest
I don't think he survives John Ruiz' resume.

[DClefthook]

There is no debate
Usyk is not an ATG
He is the best HW of HIS era....which just so happens to be the weakest HW era of all time.
I'm a big fan but I have to be honest
I don't think he survives John Ruiz' resume.

Facts my man str8t facts!

[Damn Wicked]

Those 27 ‘contenders’ Tyson faced before Berbick were 27 tomato cans.

Sep 86		Alfonzo Ratliff	21 3 0	W
Aug 86		Jose Ribalta	22 3 1	W
Jul 86		Marvis Frazier	16 1 0	W
Jul 86		Lorenzo Boyd	16 5 0	W
Jun 86		William Hosea	12 3 0	W
Jun 86		Reggie Gross	18 4 0	W
May 86		Mitch Green	16 1 1	W
May 86		James Tillis	31 8 0	W
Mar 86		Steve Zouski	25 9 0	W
Feb 86		Jesse Ferguson	14 1 0	W
Jan 86		Mike Jameson	13 10 0	W
Jan 86		David Jaco	19 5 0	W
Dec 85		Mark Young	9 6 0	W
Dec 85		Sammy Scaff	13 6 0	W
Nov 85		Conroy Nelson	15 7 2	W
Nov 85		Eddie Richardson	10 2 0	W
Nov 85		Sterling Benjamin	5 6 1	W
Oct 85		Robert Colay	7 7 1	W
Oct 85		Donnie Long	15 3 0	W
Sep 85		Michael Johnson	11 5 0	W
Aug 85		Lorenzo Canady	3 0 0	W
Jul 85		Larry Sims	3 16 2	W
Jul 85		John Alderson	3 0 0	W
Jun 85		Ricardo Spain	1 0 0	W
May 85		Don Halpin	10 18 0	W
Apr 85		Trent Singleton	1 3 0	W
Mar 85		Hector Mercedes

Holy sheite ! Is that list real ???!!!!

How did Tyson's team find that many absolute bums?! That list looks almost unbelievable!

[Ropeydope]

Whoa Kemosabe....Let's not compare Usyk's championship run to Tysons. Usyk only had to go through Chaz Witherspoon and Derek Chisora before getting a shot at AJ. Tyson had to go through 27 contenders in a two year period before KOing Trevor Berbick to get his title. Then he had to defend his strap against James "Bonecrusher" Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tyrell Biggs, Larry Holmes, Michael Spinks and Frank Bruno before he finally lost to Koke-cane.....I mean Buster Douglas. Listen I like Usyk but he in no way compares or survives against that era from the 70s-90s.

I guess the respect I put on his name is for being a real life p4p champion. He is an all time great cruiserweight who saw an opportunity to take it to the next level. I agree that a methodical dissection of two or three top dogs of this HW era doesn’t compare to the grueling records of days gone by.

There is also the eye test tho. The guy has a masterful control of range, cat like reflexes, defense, footwork, punch accuracy. It makes me wonder……..

I hope he sticks around a while longer so we can see more.

[ShoulderRoll]

Usyk is the best heavyweight of his era and currently P4P #1 in my book. He deserves his flowers for that.

Once people want to start talking about his place among the all-time greats then the requirements that have to be met are tougher and the bar is raised higher. If you don’t want to go there then just don’t bring it up.

[landotter]

There seems to be serious blow back against Usyk on this thread. All of a sudden, he is barely worthy because... well, reasons. Did he unify two separate divisions, almost always on the road in his opponents home turf? Sure... but reasons. Did he jump up to much larger fighters, and after only 2 fights to get his body get used to it immediately challenge one of the top champions at the time which almost no one picked him to win? Sure, but.... reasons. Did he satisfy his mandatory in between fights with other champions without using some loophole to avoid it? Yeah but... reasons. Did he take on a gargantuan man, one of the largest to ever be a HW, to unify and then defend a second time with zero ducking and no excuses? Yeah but... REASONS!!!


There are always ways to bring a fighters resume down and rip it to shreds if that is your goal. Usyk did what he said he would, in the quickest possible way, avoiding no one, without making excuses or ever disrespecting the sport.

Keep your "reasons" coming. History will prove them to be baseless. Mostly because Usyk already has.

[Dolor]

2. AJ (fought twice and extremely overrated)
3. Dubois (gift decision)
He fought four different guys with no real KOs. Never even dropped any of them.

Well AJ was a unified champion at the time, overrated or not.

Dubois was a TKO win, after he dropped him twice.