Comments Thread For: The Top 10 heavyweights of the 21st century so far

[CPNUTKnockoutFreshMart]

Make room on this list for BIG DOOBIE ....A Hard Rain Gonna Fall ....A Storm is Coming. Big Doobie is coming to claim his place at the TOP OF THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION. Hear me now , believe me later. When Big Doobie knocks Usyks head into the rafters at Kingdom Arena. I don't want to hear anybody crying about , " But PNUT , why didn't you warn us ? " You've been warned. I'm telling you now.

[Pulmonary Embolii]

I am sorry to disagree but in my humble opinion Lennox did not want to share the ring with Vitali again. If Vitali didn't sustain that cut (most likely from the side of the glove), the way the fight was going, it was not going to end up well for Lennox. That was the first time somebody really had Lennox's number in the ring (apart from one punch KOs he suffered and avenged) and got the better of their exchanges.

----
I have to disagree. I often feel there has been some post fight revisionism. This from a New York newspaper: Dr Pearlman Hicks (who treated Vitali for his injuries) revealed that Klitschko needed 60 stitches to close the four cuts spread around his face and also the cut inside his mouth. Imho, Lennox was on his way out and had gone from preparing to face a rather ordinary opponent in Kirk Johnson to having to meet a genuine contender. Lennox got off to a poor start and there were times I thought he looked like his heart wasn't in it, and his legs had gone but he rallied and dealt out a lot of punishment to Vitali. (Well, at least I think 60 stitches is a lot of punishment). I also can't agree that he then started ducking Vitali, as he had already rematched two fighters who had stopped him. Lennox just looked old and cream crackered and it was time to go.

[sportbuddha]

Holyfield would have handed Usyk a painful L, couldn’t hurt him, he would have been his face all night and given him hell. This era is crud.

[TheOneAboveAll]

———
Including the spectacular KO loss against journeyman Rahman? Or the beating he was receiving from Vitali before the fight was stopped or the magnanimous win against a washed up Tyson?
That record is what you say is better than Usyk’s?

Yes, I would bet money on a 5-5 tournament of Lewis’ top 5 opponents of the 00’s (Vitali, Tyson, Tua, Rahman, Botha) over Usyk’s (and, yes, you can count Fury and AJ twice if you like).

The 35-year-old version of Mike Tyson was no match for prime Lennox Lewis but I would’ve picked him over AJ or Eggman. Not sure how long you’ve been watching fights but Rahman wasn’t any kind of pushover. He and Dubois is probably a pick -em fight, but that fight probably ends with DDD quitting, as he is wont to do.

[Oregonian]

Journeyman? Nossir, Rahman had always been a legitimate contender until be bingo’d Lewis

———
Rahman was brutally KO’d by Oleg Maskaev. In the rematch he was KO’d out of the ring.
Before that? He got beat by David Tua.

Both losses before his KO of Lewis.

[Oregonian]

Yes, I would bet money on a 5-5 tournament of Lewis’ top 5 opponents of the 00’s (Vitali, Tyson, Tua, Rahman, Botha) over Usyk’s (and, yes, you can count Fury and AJ twice if you like).

The 35-year-old version of Mike Tyson was no match for prime Lennox Lewis but I would’ve picked him over AJ or Eggman. Not sure how long you’ve been watching fights but Rahman wasn’t any kind of pushover. He and Dubois is probably a pick -em fight, but that fight probably ends with DDD quitting, as he is wont to do.

———-
Let me be clarify two things so we are on the same page.
What we have today is a very weak era of heavyweight boxing.

Two, Lennox did face a slew of murderers for sure.

I shǐt on Lewis because of the losses to Rahman and McCall. And I believe if it wasn’t for the cut, Vitali was going to stop him.

Lewis should have never lost to those two guys.

[TheOneAboveAll]

———-
Let me be clarify two things so we are on the same page.
What we have today is a very weak era of heavyweight boxing.

Two, Lennox did face a slew of murderers for sure.

I shǐt on Lewis because of the losses to Rahman and McCall. And I believe if it wasn’t for the cut, Vitali was going to stop him.

Lewis should have never lost to those two guys.

Ok, we've all heard these arguments/criticisms before. Lennox Lewis was not perfect. He was not unbeatable, as his record shows, BUT he was far and away the best HW of his era AND he did EMPHATICALLY avenge his losses.

Also, much is made about nearly 38-yr old Lewis getting beat up by a prime Vitali Klitschko, but the fact is that nearly 38 yr old old Lennox Lewis TKO'd prime Vitali Klitschko. He had a tough fight with Vitali, but he busted Vitali up so bad that the ref stopped the fight. Given the severity of the cut, it was not a particularly controversial stoppage. Vitali was doing well, overall, and he was slightly up on the cards, but there was PLENTY of fight time left if it had continued, so it was no forgone conclusion that Vitali was going to win that fight. Watch it back and take note how the 6th round went. Both fighters were giving as good as they got, and I would argue that Lennox was landing heavier. IMO, the Vitali win is a feather in Lewis' cap, not any sort of black eye on his career.

Anyway, I'm not sure that this is the thread topic. I agree that Lennox's era (90's-early 00's) was substantially deeper than anything after.

[daggum]

———
Rahman was brutally KO’d by Oleg Maskaev. In the rematch he was KO’d out of the ring.
Before that? He got beat by David Tua.

Both losses before his KO of Lewis.

rahman wasnt a journeyman wilder type opponent. he did get ko'd by maskaev, but he was ko'd after the bell against tua in a fight he was up 8 rounds to 1. that should have been a dq win or at worst a NC in a fight he was dominating. he also beat corrie sanders. he was a solid contender when he beat lewis, he wasnt spilzka, washington, duhapas, molina, arreola level.

[dannnnn]

I'd switch Fury and Joshua around personally. Yeah Joshua has more losses but he also took more risks by fighting tough opposition more frequently.

If you look at common opponents:
Wlad - both beat him
Whyte - both KOed him
Usyk - both lost twice on points
Ngannou - Fury had a close one that some thought he lost, Joshua destroyed him in two.
Wallin - Fury won on points but in a tough fight that could have been stopped on a cut, Joshua dominated and stopped him in five.

Aside from that Fury has three wins (should be, anyway) over Wilder while Joshua has wins over a number of contenders including Parker, Ruiz (both on this list), Povetkin, Pulev, Franklin, Helenius and Takam. Yeah Joshua lost to Dubois recently but Dubois is no mug, he's a very dangerous fighter in great form and personally I don't think Fury would even have fought him had he been in Joshua's position.

Hopefully they get it on next year and any argument can be put to bed.

[daggum]

I'd switch Fury and Joshua around personally. Yeah Joshua has more losses but he also took more risks by fighting tough opposition more frequently.

If you look at common opponents:
Wlad - both beat him
Whyte - both KOed him
Usyk - both lost twice on points
Ngannou - Fury had a close one that some thought he lost, Joshua destroyed him in two.
Wallin - Fury won on points but in a tough fight that could have been stopped on a cut, Joshua dominated and stopped him in five.

Aside from that Fury has three wins (should be, anyway) over Wilder while Joshua has wins over a number of contenders including Parker, Ruiz (both on this list), Povetkin, Pulev, Franklin, Helenius and Takam. Yeah Joshua lost to Dubois recently but Dubois is no mug, he's a very dangerous fighter in great form and personally I don't think Fury would even have fought him had he been in Joshua's position.

Hopefully they get it on next year and any argument can be put to bed.

joshua should be above fury although i think fury would beat him head to head, joshua simply has a better resume. rankings shouldnt be done on fantasy. furys wilder wins dont hold up well at all. parker is way above wilder, ruiz jr is above wilder by a decent margin, and even an older povetkin is probably just as good.

a lot of people instead of reassessing and saying well wilder just wasnt that good, they double down and say well fury beat wilder so that must be a great win. no, it really wasnt and its because wilder had a very slim resume heading into the fury fight as he was propelled by mostly hype and fantasy projections, not substance. then the fury, parker, zhang fights happened and we got a better picture of his actual level.