Comments Thread For: David Benavidez could move to cruiserweight for Zurdo Ramirez, says father-trainer

[4truth]

This guy will be weak when draining to fight Morell ant that will be relevant. I which him the best but his future in boxing is not in a good spot...

Maybe. Maybe it's the only reason this is even being discussed. I'm thinking Benevidez should be laser focussed on Morrell right now, not talking or thinking about Zurdo.

[Oracle01]

Statistics can more easily in a sport like boxing be manufactured, compared to other sports. In my opinion? The real hardcore statistics, only really start to accumulate when a fighter becomes a World Champion, and is then being forced to take on all comers and mandatory challenges.

David Benavidez is definitively a World Level fighter, but there is no way 'Any serious boxing analyst can rate him as elite level fighter skill for skill, or in terms of individual feats achieved in his career' etc.

You can be WC and defend your belt against an endless supply of bums like GGG and Wilder did. David is fighting high level former world champions which is better than most in the sport are doing. How many fighters today have had 3 fights in a row on the level of Plant, Andrade and Gvozdyk? I will be waiting.

[Oracle01]

Stating facts is not hate, Andrade beat who for his belts again? Kautondokawa and Martisosyan? And again Andrade is slick against stiffs...

Your reading comprehension fails you when it comes to Gvozdyk.

And Dirrell is awful he's even worse than Andrade for his 2x reign in the 4 belt era, Bika and Yıldırım is how he became a 2x champion.

Lets be real here being a champion in the 4 belt era doesn't mean much.

Benavidez being another prime example of that he became a champion the first time against Gavril and then Dirrel after his disgraceful antics.

You can play these who did he beat games with everyone. Who did GGG beat to become WBA super champion in 2014? Nobody, it was emailed. What world champions did he was beat for a real title. David Lemueix and Jacobs and it took him until 34 pro fights.

Who did Canelo beat for his first title? Matthew Hatton lol.

You call Dirrell who was 35-1, 2 time WC his only loss was a close decision to a 3 division Champ as 'awful' You are just another troll.

[Boro]

You can play these who did he beat games with everyone. Who did GGG beat to become WBA super champion in 2014? Nobody, it was emailed. What world champions did he was beat for a real title. David Lemueix and Jacobs and it took him until 34 pro fights.

Who did Canelo beat for his first title? Matthew Hatton lol.

You call Dirrell who was 35-1, 2 time WC his only loss was a close decision to a 3 division Champ as 'awful' You are just another troll.

Let's not act like GGG haven't defended the WBA 10 times which given that the WBA claims a mandatory is supposed to be called every 18 months is a disgrace...

All the mess with interm and that garbage can be attributed to RJJ, he vacated the LHW belt. Rocchigiani beat Michael Nunn for the vacant belt. Then Roy Jones decided he wanted to keep the belt. The WBC stripped Rocchigiani, and gave Roy Jones the belt back. Rocchigiani sued them and won.

Subsequently other sanctioning followed suit to squeeze as much money out of fighters as possible.

Canelo also fought a multitude of decent champions after Hattons, lets not get it twisted.

Let's not retroactively make Badou Jack a 3x champion when he fought Dirrell, he was a nobody in his first title shot.

How many fighters today have had 3 fights in a row on the level of Plant, Andrade and Gvozdyk?

Plenty, Plant hasn't beaten anyone of note, nor has Andrade and both fighters stats are padded because of it.

And Gvozdyk is years removed from real competition, basically a washed name but even that's a reach because he isn't really a name.

But he was lineal at one point which holds slightly more weight than the other two former alphabet champions...

[Oracle01]

Let's not act like GGG haven't defended the WBA 10 times which given that the WBA claims a mandatory is supposed to be called every 18 months is a disgrace...

All the mess with interm and that garbage can be attributed to RJJ, he vacated the LHW belt. Rocchigiani beat Michael Nunn for the vacant belt. Then Roy Jones decided he wanted to keep the belt. The WBC stripped Rocchigiani, and gave Roy Jones the belt back. Rocchigiani sued them and won.

Subsequently other sanctioning followed suit to squeeze as much money out of fighters as possible.

Canelo also fought a multitude of decent champions after Hattons, lets not get it twisted.

Let's not retroactively make Badou Jack a 3x champion when he fought Dirrell, he was a nobody in his first title shot.



Plenty, Plant hasn't beaten anyone of note, nor has Andrade and both fighters stats are padded because of it.

And Gvozdyk is years removed from real competition, basically a washed name but even that's a reach because he isn't really a name.

But he was lineal at one point which holds slightly more weight than the other two former alphabet champions...

I could use every argument for almost every opponent anyone ever beat. GGGs only win of note is Jacobs who lost to John Ryder and was knocked out previously and never beat anyone of note. Or Lara, or Trout who only had 1 win of note vs an old Cotto.

If Dirrell was awful then everyone Canelo beat at 168 was awful because none of them beat anyone of note. Please tell me who Canelo beat at 168 you don't think was awful.

[Boro]

I could use every argument for almost every opponent anyone ever beat. GGGs only win of note is Jacobs who lost to John Ryder and was knocked out previously and never beat anyone of note. Or Lara, or Trout who only had 1 win of note vs an old Cotto.

If Dirrell was awful then everyone Canelo beat at 168 was awful because none of them beat anyone of note. Please tell me who Canelo beat at 168 you don't think was awful.

AFTER GGG beat him, you need to stop retroactively deciding what's good or bad to fit a narrative.

If Jacobs was a good win it was because it was a good win at the time, him subsequently losing to Ryder is irrelevant also let's not pretend he (GGG) shouldn't have a win over Cinnamon or that Jacobs wasn't jobbed in the Ryder fight...

Just like Badou Jack becoming a 3x weight champion, he was a nobody and lightly regarded when Dirrell fought him...

Ohhh so because you don't like Cinnamon Lara going on to be a champion or Cotto previously being a 4 weight division champion doesn't mean anything but those type of things matter for Benavidez interesting...

Well you previously rated Lemieux as a good win for GGG so by that logic BJS schooling him has to make him a somewhat decent win for Canelo.

Smith also beat the guy who was regarded as the #1 (Groves) so Cinnamon beat arguably the two best guys in the division, though BJS clearly looked better at 60...

Benavidez didn't have the testicular fortitude to join the WBSS, I remember exactly the mess regarding the WBC and Smith.

Dirrell and Smith were supposed to fight, PBC changed the venue last minute to Dirrells hometown (Flint) after messing him about for ages, he decided to just join the WBSS.

Where he was guaranteed title fights, should he progress.

Not only that, originally the WBC, IBF and WBO were all supposed to be in the tournament.

But of course PBC got involved made their fighters refuse to enter and ruined everything.

Smith was suppose to be guaranteed the winner of Dirrell and Benavidez BTW, that's why the Diamond belt was randomly on the line against Skoglund, to assuage both fighters fears that they wouldn't get the shot next.

But both the WBC and Benavidez didn't uphold their end of the bargain.

And Plant as I said was nobody who beat a nobody for his belt and went on a string of bum defenses milking his belt slightly before selling it to Canelo and then went back to beating bums...

[Oracle01]

AFTER GGG beat him, you need to stop retroactively deciding what's good or bad to fit a narrative.

If Jacobs was a good win it was because it was a good win at the time, him subsequently losing to Ryder is irrelevant also let's not pretend he (GGG) shouldn't have a win over Cinnamon or that Jacobs wasn't jobbed in the Ryder fight...

Just like Badou Jack becoming a 3x weight champion, he was a nobody and lightly regarded when Dirrell fought him...

Ohhh so because you don't like Cinnamon Lara going on to be a champion or Cotto previously being a 4 weight division champion doesn't mean anything but those type of things matter for Benavidez interesting...

Well you previously rated Lemieux as a good win for GGG so by that logic BJS schooling him has to make him a somewhat decent win for Canelo.

Smith also beat the guy who was regarded as the #1 (Groves) so Cinnamon beat arguably the two best guys in the division, though BJS clearly looked better at 60...

Benavidez didn't have the testicular fortitude to join the WBSS, I remember exactly the mess regarding the WBC and Smith.

Dirrell and Smith were supposed to fight, PBC changed the venue last minute to Dirrells hometown (Flint) after messing him about for ages, he decided to just join the WBSS.

Where he was guaranteed title fights, should he progress.

Not only that, originally the WBC, IBF and WBO were all supposed to be in the tournament.

But of course PBC got involved made their fighters refuse to enter and ruined everything.

Smith was suppose to be guaranteed the winner of Dirrell and Benavidez BTW, that's why the Diamond belt was randomly on the line against Skoglund, to assuage both fighters fears that they wouldn't get the shot next.

But both the WBC and Benavidez didn't uphold their end of the bargain.

And Plant as I said was nobody who beat a nobody for his belt and went on a string of bum defenses milking his belt slightly before selling it to Canelo and then went back to beating bums...

What a load of rambling dribble. Explain why Jacobs was a good win for GGG but Dirrell was awful. Lets start with that. Then tell me which of Canelo's 168 wins were not awful.

Did you actually say Groves was the number 1 at 168 when Callum Smith beat him? LOL. Both were Uk level. Smith should have lost to journeyman Ryder the fight before Canelo. There goes your best in the division. lol

Benavidez didn't have the testicular fortitude to join the WBSS

Yes the mighty WBSS, which featured the murderers row of Erik Skoglund, Nieky Holzken (a kickboxer) and a shot Groves. The only thing Benavidez was scared of was wasting his time with euro cans.

[Boro]

What a load of rambling dribble. Explain why Jacobs was a good win for GGG but Dirrell was awful. Lets start with that. Then tell me which of Canelo's 168 wins were not awful.

Did you actually say Groves was the number 1 at 168 when Callum Smith beat him? LOL. Both were Uk level. Smith should have lost to journeyman Ryder the fight before Canelo. There goes your best in the division. lol



Yes the mighty WBSS, which featured the murderers row of Erik Skoglund, Nieky Holzken (a kickboxer) and a shot Groves. The only thing Benavidez was scared of was wasting his time with euro cans.

"rambling dribble" = facts, I know you've probably fried your attention span doomscrolling but everything I said is accurate, I'm sorry you're too ret@rded to grasp that.

I didn't say Jacobs was a good win you did, if you make the assertion you have to back up said assertion.

Why would I ever argue your position?

Who was #1 at the time then!? it certainly wasn't Benavidez or Zurdo.

So clearly the fight between Groves and Smith decided that hence why The Ring belt was on the line...

And beyond that there were no other semi-decent active fighters @ 68.

Yes "the mighty WBSS".

That had weaker opposition in it because people like Benavidez ACTIVELY avoided it, not only that he actively avoided Smith after it.

And you can imply he would be wasting time with "euro cans" all you want son, super middleweight has pretty much been dominated by "euro cans" since its inception.

So it's not only laughable to use that language it's ignorant as f@ck.

And why would it be a waste of time to be in when the WBSS ultimately got Smith a fight with Canelo and put Usyk, Taylor and Inoue on the map.

[factsarenice]

The real litmus test for David Benavidez as an all round boxer, will be like YOU said 'When he encounters fighters who can also compete against him, in the areas of his game where he usually has a advantage in the lower weight classes. I.E Brute Strength, Power, Aggression.

But Benavidez's aggression in my opinion, may be influenced highly by the fact? That he knows he is the big man on fight night 'Without this acute advantage, and up against naturally stronger fighters in the Light Heavyweight Divisions and above. Benavidez may not be as aggressive, and forced to develop more variations in his game'.

David Benavidez is definitively very similar to Toney Bellew 'And we may be witnessing the stage of his career, where it is no longer sustainable for him to continue fighting at the Super Middle Weight and potentially Light Heavyweight Divisions. Benavidez may be able to make the weight limits for many years to come in the Super Middle Weight to Light Heavyweight Divisions, but? That should not be the primary objective of a fighter'.

This is a criticism I have continually stated in regard to modern day lower weight class fighters 'The primarily objective of many modern day fighters is to first make the weight limit, training to win seem to a lot of the times be a secondary objective'.

I think David Benavidez is a solid fighter, but I just don't rate him as a Elite level fighter skill for skill 'He has achieved no feats on his resume, which suggest he is a Elite level fighter'.

Note: I have always backed Canelo Alvarez to win vs David Benavidez 'Stylistically the fight is straight up Alvarez's street. Pretty much very similar to how Bernard Hopkins vs Kelly Pavlik was stylistically a match up, straight up Hopkin's street. But at the time when Hopkins vs Pavlik was announced? The aggression, brute strength and pressuring fighting skills of Pavlik on the surface level? Made Kelly Pavlik appear like a potential brutal fight for Bernard Hopkins. But beyond the surface level, Pavlik in many areas of his game was going to struggle to complete with Hopkins, if he was not able to negate Hopkins with his own best attributes'.

It was only when you analyse fights below the surface level, and you compared all the bars of each fighter. Like on old school fighting games such as Street Fighter, where each character has like a bar representing how strong their level was in that fighting attribute. When you analyse fighters and match ups, attribute by attribute and go beyond the surface level.

In my opinion, YOUR perception of fighters and match ups does not always sync with the general public 'Or whatever narratives the universal boxing media is trying to promote and push for a particular fight'. Because usually those narratives which are pushed by the media, are mostly only surface level perceptions'.

The media knows that, the general public and casual sports fans 'Interact with information, predominantly on this level. During any big fight build up, the real hardcore debates, analysis is not really happening on Sky Sports or most other media channels. To a certain degree with most sports, the media will tactically not analyse sports in-depth much beyond the surface level because? They have to target different levels of perception'.

To conclude: David Benavidez on a surface level, appears like he is monster fighter to certain folk 'The general public and casual sports fans for the most part observe things on a surface level. Boxing promoters and the media are very aware of this. Benavidez has traits as a fighter, that are very impactful on a surface level of people's perceptions. Violence and aggression'.

But when you go beyond the surface level, you will understand that David Benavidez is not quite the monster fighter 'To the level that certain folk in the boxing community and media are trying to claim'.

David Benavidez is a solid World level fighter 'He has reached this point, by mainly relying on being the big man on fight night. Benavidez has reached World level with these tactics, but thus far in his career? I have not seen the evidence that he is good enough to reach elite level with those tactics. Especially once he starts to compete at his more natural weight, in the higher weight divisions'.



Statistics can more easily in a sport like boxing be manufactured, compared to other sports. In my opinion? The real hardcore statistics, only really start to accumulate when a fighter becomes a World Champion, and is then being forced to take on all comers and mandatory challenges.

David Benavidez is definitively a World Level fighter, but there is no way 'Any serious boxing analyst can rate him as elite level fighter skill for skill, or in terms of individual feats achieved in his career' etc.

Wow, that's really well thought out, solid read!