Comments Thread For: The 10 best junior middleweights in history

[Oregonian]

1. Wahhh Oscar coasted the last 4 rounds and cost himself that fight. And it was fought @147.But ya he deserved the nod.
2. Tito vs winky was fought @160 and Tito was retired basically by then. Like STFU lmao. if they fought at 154 in their primes tito walks through winky. Using the winky loss against him is like using the quillen loss against winky smh.Vargas smacked winky around then proceeded to have his life ruined by tito
3.the hopkins fight was also @160. And Hopkins beat everyone @160.

————-
A great boxer will always have a plan B when he hits a wall. Tito was like an amateur and had no clue as to how deal with Winky’s jab and peekaboo style. All he did for 12 rounds was move forward plodding like a caveman.
I never put Winky on a pedestal like you are with Tito. Winky got beat but he wasn’t bamboozled like Tito.

Look at what an old Roy did to Tito lol

[LAchargers373]

————-
A great boxer will always have a plan B when he hits a wall. Tito was like an amateur and had no clue as to how deal with Winky’s jab and peekaboo style. All he did for 12 rounds was move forward plodding like a caveman.
I never put Winky on a pedestal like you are with Tito. Winky got beat but he wasn’t bamboozled like Tito.

Look at what an old Roy did to Tito lol

I admit winky and Roy took Tito to school but he came out of retirement for those fights and winky was one of those guys that got better as he got older

[elfag]

Charlo is garbage, I don't care that he unified a weak era

Canelo beats him head to head. Canelo had a ton of fights at his imaginary weight division of 155 when he was ducking GGG

[Willow The Wisp]

Good article, list and thread responses. Love seeing some acknowledgement for Kaule, who is grossly under appreciated for the reason mentioned.

I'd put out there Freddie Little, Sugar Shane Mosley, Del Flanagan, Ki Soo Kim, Sandro Mazzinghi and Ralph Dupas as a just a few who deserve mention as those who might round out the top 25.

[Oregonian]

I admit winky and Roy took Tito to school but he came out of retirement for those fights and winky was one of those guys that got better as he got older

———
Tito retired and came out of retirement to destroy Mayorga AND then he fought Winky. When he destroyed Mayorga, there was no talk of him being “rusty” or old. He gets bamboozled by Winky in his next fight and now we’re making excuses. Winky would have beaten Tito at any time in Tito’s career.

As for the Roy fight, Roy was 40 years old and coming off two KO losses and still befuddled Tito.

There are no buts. Tito was beaten senseless by Winky, Roy and Hopkins. Those losses do not diminish his status in boxing. Tito was just a heavy handed boxer but fell apart against pure technicians.

[LAchargers373]

———
Tito retired and came out of retirement to destroy Mayorga AND then he fought Winky. When he destroyed Mayorga, there was no talk of him being “rusty” or old. He gets bamboozled by Winky in his next fight and now we’re making excuses. Winky would have beaten Tito at any time in Tito’s career.

As for the Roy fight, Roy was 40 years old and coming off two KO losses and still befuddled Tito.

There are no buts. Tito was beaten senseless by Winky, Roy and Hopkins. Those losses do not diminish his status in boxing. Tito was just a heavy handed boxer but fell apart against pure technicians.

Lmao mayorga smh. Ofc he looked great against mayorga man tito could knock out that bum str8 off the couch any day of the week twice on Sunday. He was done after the hopkins fight. Everything he did after that was whatever. The chariifi fight was a joke just his Puerto Rican send off. he was retired then came out of retirement for a couple money fights but he wasn’t the same machine that tore through 147/154. You can say whatever you want prime Tito beats winky much cleaner Vargas did. Tito came out of retirement and had one fight in 3 years by the time him and winky fought. In that same span of time from 2002 till they fought winky had SIX fights. A Tito was a boxer puncher you obviously don’t know much about him lol. Anyways the question was who’s the best at 154. The common opponent they had at the same time they were in that division and active fighter is Vargas and Vargas beat winky easily and Tito ruined Vargas”s life. Also look at what Tito did to reid. Gold medal undefeated when he took him out. Roy was just too big for Tito. Too fast too good. Hopkins was a technician that fought a unbelievable fight probably the best of his career vs trinidad. But winky? Lmao …just no…and I’m a HUGE winky fan. One of the most underrated fighters of that era and he lasted longer than most but prime vs prime tito was just too good for him sorry

[Oregonian]

Lmao mayorga smh. Ofc he looked great against mayorga man tito could knock out that bum str8 off the couch any day of the week twice on Sunday. He was done after the hopkins fight. Everything he did after that was whatever. The chariifi fight was a joke just his Puerto Rican send off. he was retired then came out of retirement for a couple money fights but he wasn’t the same machine that tore through 147/154. You can say whatever you want prime Tito beats winky much cleaner Vargas did. Tito came out of retirement and had one fight in 3 years by the time him and winky fought. In that same span of time from 2002 till they fought winky had SIX fights. A Tito was a boxer puncher you obviously don’t know much about him lol. Anyways the question was who’s the best at 154. The common opponent they had at the same time they were in that division and active fighter is Vargas and Vargas beat winky easily and Tito ruined Vargas”s life. Also look at what Tito did to reid. Gold medal undefeated when he took him out. Roy was just too big for Tito. Too fast too good. Hopkins was a technician that fought a unbelievable fight probably the best of his career vs trinidad. But winky? Lmao …just no…and I’m a HUGE winky fan. One of the most underrated fighters of that era and he lasted longer than most but prime vs prime tito was just too good for him sorry

———
You know I appreciate you not making this a personal grudge discourse. People here tend to lose their marbles whenever their opinions are contested.

That said, Harold Lederman scored the fight 115-113 for Winky AND many ring observers and so called boxing experts had Winky winning while others thought it was a draw. We always tend to favor our guys. When I watched that fight, I was a Vargas guy because of his style and I thought he got a decision that was in my favor too. However, after watching Winky dismantle Mosley and then Tito, I rewatched the Vargas fight and came away with a different thought.

I lived in New York most of my life so I watched every Tito fight. Tito was a ferocious puncher but when he fought technicians he fell apart and had zero plan B. You know, I never liked Hopkins but Hopkins was a guy that trained for specific fighters and adjusted his style. I can respect that. Tito could not.

[just the facts]

After unifying titles at 140 and 147 pounds, Terence Crawford looks to add a belt at 154 pounds when he takes on tough Israil Madrimov in Los Angeles on Saturday night.
[Click Here To Read More]

Considering that McCallum knocked Norris out and never lost at the weight, how could Norris be #1 and McCallum be #2? Make it make sense……

[The D3vil]

Ayub Kahlule is underrated, but belongs nowhere near the top 5.

1. Hearns
2. Norris
3. McCallum
4. Mayweather
5. Winky
6. Benitez
7. De La Hoya
8. Charlo
9. Jackson
10. Trinidad

[LAchargers373]

———
You know I appreciate you not making this a personal grudge discourse. People here tend to lose their marbles whenever their opinions are contested.

That said, Harold Lederman scored the fight 115-113 for Winky AND many ring observers and so called boxing experts had Winky winning while others thought it was a draw. We always tend to favor our guys. When I watched that fight, I was a Vargas guy because of his style and I thought he got a decision that was in my favor too. However, after watching Winky dismantle Mosley and then Tito, I rewatched the Vargas fight and came away with a different thought.

I lived in New York most of my life so I watched every Tito fight. Tito was a ferocious puncher but when he fought technicians he fell apart and had zero plan B. You know, I never liked Hopkins but Hopkins was a guy that trained for specific fighters and adjusted his style. I can respect that. Tito could not.

Man Trinidad was my favorite fighter. He didn’t always win but dude gave %110 till the bell. That winky fight still bugs me cause that was when I knew he was like done done at the top lol. I’ve never been able to accept it smh but I agree with everything you said. When he faced an elite technician he did struggle. I just think winky caught him when wink was at the top of his game and tito was on his way out. If they had fought around 2000/2001 at 154 tito would do much better and could pull out a dub. Winky was underated but he wasn’t as good as Hopkins and RJJ. God that was one helluva an era. 147 to 160 was godly. ODLH trinidad quartey Vargas Mosley winky williams Martinez Forrest Hopkins Pavlik to a lesser degree mayorga that block of time was great for boxing. Makes today suck lol