Comments Thread For: Johnathon Banks Q&A: Sparring Wladimir And Vitali, Foreman Hitting So Hard They Had To Put More Padding In The Gloves And The Intricacies Of Good Coaching

[eco1]

Worth remembering today's HWs are lot bigger. Joshua comes in a lot heavier + bigger than the Foreman who went in against Ali.

That's not really my point though - I'm not saying AJ does hit harder than Foreman. I'm questioning why Foreman needed to hit his opponents so many times to stop them (like AJ does)

Ask Moorer and his broken in 3 pieces jaw.

[trippleupper]

Worth remembering today's HWs are lot bigger. Joshua comes in a lot heavier + bigger than the Foreman who went in against Ali.

That's not really my point though - I'm not saying AJ does hit harder than Foreman. I'm questioning why Foreman needed to hit his opponents so many times to stop them (like AJ does)

He didn't.

My question is: did they really change the gloves from 8 to 10 oz because of George Foreman?

[MulaKO]

He didn't.

My question is: did they really change the gloves from 8 to 10 oz because of George Foreman?

That is a fact
8 to 10 ounces after a fighter had his arm broken from a punch

[Boxing2695]

I always want to know if Foreman really hit as hard as people say? Because I've seen a lot of fights where he stops a guy but he usually has to hit them a lot. Reminds me more of Anthony Joshua in that respect than Deontay Wilder. And in fact his knock out% is about the same as Joshua and Foreman has fought more bums. But then he did have a lot more fights so that evens out.

I remember that Ali film (When We Were Kings) when they really had to make Foreman out as a monster for the sake of the film. To be fair - he kind of was at the time but they went too far with it. I think that's why a lot of people over-rate Foreman's power without having seen his fights

According to box rec Wilder's KO percentage is 97% and Foreman and Joshua's are 89%. Both Parker and Breazeale are on record as saying AJ's right hand is good but pretty standard for a HW but his left jab is very hard - which fits with what I said above where he has to hit people a lot to KO them. BUT everyone says Wilder has freakish power even Parker. Only person who didn't was Zhang

I'd put foremans power up against any heavyweights in history because he knocked out legit guys in two different eras and it might not been explosive power like wilders but if foreman didn't knock you out clean which he did to many guys he'd still batter guys with the power and have them looking like a mess after the fight. I dont read to much into knockout percentages because there's guy with like 25-30% KO ratio that could put you're lights out. Just some guys are more prolific with the power punching then others but It don't mean a guy with a lower KO percentage can't hit hard in a fight.

[Phase III]

Trust me I understand everything you are saying but trying to change or fix an older fighter not that easy. The same way you feel about JB is how I am towards Buddy McGirt he's just a cheer leader that's loud but his results are no better, tell me I'm wrong! He's just been around much longer and has had a chance to work with younger already developed fighters whom were seasoned already. I do agree with paying the trainer. Danny Jacobs at the end was having the same issues and paid the price as well.

I agree, but, that being the case, keep what got them to their level alone. Having Cecilia fight McCaskill instead of having Cecilia use her boxing skills for example shows a trainer is clueless.

Ronnie Shields is another yelling cheerleader. Two of the most famous of this bunch were Lou Duva and Teddy Atlas. Both were about being the center of attention on TV. Duva couldn’t train a dog to bark, yet he insisted on taking all the shine away from a great trainer in George Benton so he could get on TV and make a complete fool of himself.

Now let me let you in on a secret that few people know. Emanuel Steward was a great trainer when he worked a fighters corner. Manny could break down a fight in the heat of the battle. But, it was the great trainers at the Kronk gym like Bill Miller, Walter Smith, Luther Burgess, and Prentiss Byrd to name a few that never got the credit they deserved. These were genius trainers who could actually teach the sweet science. I take nothing away from Manny, and yes he gets all the credit for training the great Tommy Hearns. FYI, Bill Miller taught the defensive genius James Toney how to fight.

[MulaKO]

I agree, but, that being the case, keep what got them to their level alone. Having Cecilia fight McCaskill instead of having Cecilia use her boxing skills for example shows a trainer is clueless.

Ronnie Shields is another yelling cheerleader. Two of the most famous of this bunch were Lou Duva and Teddy Atlas. Both were about being the center of attention on TV. Duva couldn’t train a dog to bark, yet he insisted on taking all the shine away from a great trainer in George Benton so he could get on TV and make a complete fool of himself.

Now let me let you in on a secret that few people know. Emanuel Steward was a great trainer when he worked a fighters corner. Manny could break down a fight in the heat of the battle. But, it was the great trainers at the Kronk gym like Bill Miller, Walter Smith, Luther Burgess, and Prentiss Byrd to name a few that never got the credit they deserved. These were genius trainers who could actually teach the sweet science. I take nothing away from Manny, and yes he gets all the credit for training the great Tommy Hearns. FYI, Bill Miller taught the defensive genius James Toney how to fight.

Standout post
Kudos mofo

[Roberto Vasquez]

I'd put foremans power up against any heavyweights in history because he knocked out legit guys in two different eras and it might not been explosive power like wilders but if foreman didn't knock you out clean which he did to many guys he'd still batter guys with the power and have them looking like a mess after the fight. I dont read to much into knockout percentages because there's guy with like 25-30% KO ratio that could put you're lights out. Just some guys are more prolific with the power punching then others but It don't mean a guy with a lower KO percentage can't hit hard in a fight.

Well that's what I was thinking originally - it's not huge one punch power - it's large power but thrown many times. I always hear that Ernie Shavers was the hardest hitting guy of that era.

Going against Foreman's power is they apparently (according to Banks) put padding in all boxing gloves because of him - so up to a certain point Foreman had the advantage of less padding in gloves - unlike boxers do now. Also when Foreman went the distance it was probably 15 rounds. So he had longer to knock the guys out or wear them down.

[Roberto Vasquez]

Ask Moorer and his broken in 3 pieces jaw.

He was a smaller HW (Uysk weighed more than him in his last fight) who went in against a huge fat Foreman. Foreman basically landed that one slow-motion punch. If anyone that big landed that punch in the same place it may also have broken his jaw.

The first fight I ever saw Foreman in was against Axel Schulz who outboxed Foreman comfortably over 15(?) rounds but somehow lost a decision.

[hitmanjosh]

I agree, but, that being the case, keep what got them to their level alone. Having Cecilia fight McCaskill instead of having Cecilia use her boxing skills for example shows a trainer is clueless.

Ronnie Shields is another yelling cheerleader. Two of the most famous of this bunch were Lou Duva and Teddy Atlas. Both were about being the center of attention on TV. Duva couldn’t train a dog to bark, yet he insisted on taking all the shine away from a great trainer in George Benton so he could get on TV and make a complete fool of himself.

Now let me let you in on a secret that few people know. Emanuel Steward was a great trainer when he worked a fighters corner. Manny could break down a fight in the heat of the battle. But, it was the great trainers at the Kronk gym like Bill Miller, Walter Smith, Luther Burgess, and Prentiss Byrd to name a few that never got the credit they deserved. These were genius trainers who could actually teach the sweet science. I take nothing away from Manny, and yes he gets all the credit for training the great Tommy Hearns. FYI, Bill Miller taught the defensive genius James Toney how to fight.

You got to be from Michigan! I agree with most except Prentiss, he had other issues! Duva, wasn't a trainer he was a scout which he did better than develop, but it was wrong how Georgie was done, they didn't pay him his worth. The real secret is Manny took many local fighters that were trained by other trainers first.

[eco1]

He was a smaller HW (Uysk weighed more than him in his last fight) who went in against a huge fat Foreman. Foreman basically landed that one slow-motion punch. If anyone that big landed that punch in the same place it may also have broken his jaw.

The first fight I ever saw Foreman in was against Axel Schulz who outboxed Foreman comfortably over 15(?) rounds but somehow lost a decision.

Man, everyone who has been in there with Foreman, all historian and everyone who saw him fight, like I did, We are all wrong.
Good to have you here to correct us all.