Is Bud effectively retired if Canelo won't give him a fight?

[famicommander]

If he stays at WW, then no other fight matters more than Ennis. Beating the young lion heir apparent and recovering his IBF belt adds plenty to Crawford's resume before he retires. If he moves up, then the only fights that matter are title fights. That means Jermell Charlo (if he ever fights again) or Tim Tszyu after he steamrolls Keith Thurman. The rest of the matchups are meaningless to Crawford who only has time for big money legacy fights.

Beating Ennis does nothing for his legacy. Ennis has a shopworn Lipinets as his best W and only has a belt in the first place because Crawford dropped it.

Crawford should fight at 154 to establish himself there. If he can't get Tszyu or Charlo but he utterly dominates Mendoza or Castano, that will likely vault him into the top 2 of the independent rankings (Ring, TBRB, ESPN, BLH, etc) and set him up for a potential lineal title fight against Tszyu should the reigning lineal champion Charlo decide not to return to 154.

[TheOneAboveAll]

Beating Ennis does nothing for his legacy. Ennis has a shopworn Lipinets as his best W and only has a belt in the first place because Crawford dropped it.

Crawford should fight at 154 to establish himself there. If he can't get Tszyu or Charlo but he utterly dominates Mendoza or Castano, that will likely vault him into the top 2 of the independent rankings (Ring, TBRB, ESPN, BLH, etc) and set him up for a potential lineal title fight against Tszyu should the reigning lineal champion Charlo decide not to return to 154.

Fair enough, but despite his thin resume, Boots Ennis remains widely regarded as the top WW and heir apparent to Crawford and Spence, who are both in their final years as fighters. I believe there is plenty of value in beating the next generation guy coming up. It would be very much like Mayweather schooling a young lion Canelo toward the end of his career. Just as that win gains luster with every new achievement made by Canelo, a win over a future multi-division world champ and possible legend of the sport one day would be a huge feather in Crawford's cap (yes, it's premature to predict legend status for Ennis atm, but we all expect big things from Boots).

Bottom line is that Crawford isn't looking to 'establish' himself in the 154lb division. He wants and expects to go straight to the money fight and become undisputed there too, so there is no good reason to go through the 2nd tier guys like Mendoza and Castano. It's also very possible that Jermell Charlo retires and all the belts get split up again. In that case, I strongly doubt that Crawford is up for that journey.

[famicommander]

Fair enough, but despite his thin resume, Boots Ennis remains widely regarded as the top WW and heir apparent to Crawford and Spence, who are both in their final years as fighters. I believe there is plenty of value in beating the next generation guy coming up. It would be very much like Mayweather schooling a young lion Canelo toward the end of his career. Just as that win gains luster with every new achievement made by Canelo, a win over a future multi-division world champ and possible legend of the sport one day would be a huge feather in Crawford's cap (yes, it's premature to predict legend status for Ennis atm, but we all expect big things from Boots).

Bottom line is that Crawford isn't looking to 'establish' himself in the 154lb division. He wants and expects to go straight to the money fight and become undisputed there too, so there is no good reason to go through the 2nd tier guys like Mendoza and Castano. It's also very possible that Jermell Charlo retires and all the belts get split up again. In that case, I strongly doubt that Crawford is up for that journey.

By the time Mayweather fought him Canelo already had wins over Miguel Vazquez twice, Carlos Baldomir, Lovemore N'Dou, Kermit Cintron, Shane Mosley, and Austin Trout among others.

Ennis is a complete unknown quantity at this point. He could become great or he could lose to Crowley or Stanionis or Barrios or Santillan in his next fight and never be heard from at the top level again. Bottom line is wins over guys like the ghost of Lipinets, Dulorme, Karen, and Villa are nothing to go off of.

It's not just undisputed titles Crawford is chasing, it's lineal titles. If he becomes lineal in a 4th division he joints Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao as the only two other four division lineal champions in the history of boxing. He was lineal at 135, lineal at 140, and lineal at 147. His next goal should be to become lineal at 154, and from there he can decide whether he wants to finish off by chasing undisputed at 154 or moving up to 160.

[TheOneAboveAll]

By the time Mayweather fought him Canelo already had wins over Miguel Vazquez twice, Carlos Baldomir, Lovemore N'Dou, Kermit Cintron, Shane Mosley, and Austin Trout among others.

Ennis is a complete unknown quantity at this point. He could become great or he could lose to Crowley or Stanionis or Barrios or Santillan in his next fight and never be heard from at the top level again. Bottom line is wins over guys like the ghost of Lipinets, Dulorme, Karen, and Villa are nothing to go off of.

Ok, most of you guys can't predict the future, but do you think beating Ennis is bigger than beating Brian Mendoza/Castano? As I said, Bud doesn't have to establish himself anywhere. He is pretty much the consensus top guy in the sport. He can make any fight he wants to at 147 or 154lbs, tomorrow. He apparently wants bigger money/legacy fights though, so that's why he's sitting around pining for Canelo.

[famicommander]

Ok, most of you guys can't predict the future, but do you think beating Ennis is bigger than beating Brian Mendoza/Castano? As I said, Bud doesn't have to establish himself anywhere. He is pretty much the consensus top guy in the sport. He can make any fight he wants to at 147 or 154lbs, tomorrow. He apparently wants bigger money/legacy fights though, so that's why he's sitting around pining for Canelo.

No, I think Castano at 154 is a much better win than Ennis at 147. Castano has been in several top level fights and honestly got robbed in the Lara fight and the first Charlo fight.

[TheOneAboveAll]

No, I think Castano at 154 is a much better win than Ennis at 147. Castano has been in several top level fights and honestly got robbed in the Lara fight and the first Charlo fight.

Okay, I think that's a minority opinion for sure, but not crazy. Castano's an excellent fighter and fun to watch, but IMO Jermell Charlo emphatically separated him from the top echelon in that rematch.

[dan-b]

Some of you guys way overcomplicate this conversation with all this subjective 'legacy' talk. It's pretty simple to me. If Bud stays ay 147, Boots is the fight as he's the next independently ranked guy after Spence, who he already beat easily.

If 154 is the next move it should be one of the top guys there. The TBRB rankings are below, Castano has been dropped due to inactivity.

TBRB 154.png

[BodyBagz]

The ''non face of boxing'' is still the cash king.

[hugh grant]

Bud acts as if he's retired now, he don't fight who people ask him too. But there's Tim, and a 160 belt and then nelo.

[rickJen]

Bud acts as if he's retired now, he don't fight who people ask him too. But there's Tim, and a 160 belt and then nelo.

He's probably waiting for offers. No one is sending him any so far.