Comments Thread For: Eddie Hearn on PBC-Amazon Deal: Maybe The Stubbornness Will Remain; Hopefully We Can Make Some Big Fights

[OnePunch]

Yea again you are putting the business & profit of promoters above the sport of boxing, the fans & the entertainment value. This is a structural problem with the sport. Promoters have far too much power.

A decent prospect who ended up with a 21-13-6 record if matches were made with the sport ahead of the busines is the same decent prospect whos 22-1 now. And who ppl call a bum anyway. If you beat nobody at 21-13-6 or 22-1 you still beat nobody. Theres just less bs involved in how the 21-13-6 guy was moved.

There is no "college football" level in boxing, or AAA clubs like in baseball, where athletes learn their craft. And the amateurs only prepare guys to a certain point, and thats only if the fighter lives in a geographical area with a decent amateur program. A fighters first 10 or 15 fights are basically their education at the pro level. I think we both agree that fighters like the Charlos, or Tank Davis, should not still be fighting C and D level opposition. But I think you are dead wrong about how to develop a fighter. You dont develop a Mayweather, or a Delahoya, by putting them in with Godzilla in their pro debut. You gradually raise the level of opposition in proportion to their development. But we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.

[Eff Pandas]

There is no "college football" level in boxing, or AAA clubs like in baseball, where athletes learn their craft. And the amateurs only prepare guys to a certain point, and thats only if the fighter lives in a geographical area with a decent amateur program. A fighters first 10 or 15 fights are basically their education at the pro level. I think we both agree that fighters like the Charlos, or Tank Davis, should not still be fighting C and D level opposition. But I think you are dead wrong about how to develop a fighter. You dont develop a Mayweather, or a Delahoya, by putting them in with Godzilla in their pro debut. You gradually raise the level of opposition in proportion to their development. But we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.

Obviously there's not tiers in boxing, although I think there should be & in a way there kinda sorta is unofficially. Like if you sign with a TV deal promoter you are kinda at the AA level out of the gate. And a guy who signs with a local non-TV deal promoter is kinda fighting at the A level & guys who don't even sign with anyone out of the gate are in the Rookie League. You might even say guys like Loma & Andy more recently started at the AAA level. But thats a whole other subject.

As to the "godzilla" pro debut opp I'm not suggesting anyone do that at all. I do think you let outcomes decide who rises to better & better guys more than guys are cleverly moved from their debut to belt fights, or as you'd say "developed" into their highest level in the sport. Its hurting the sport to put guys into fights no one gaf about til they are 15-20 fights & 3-4 yrs deep into their careers. You'll rarely see a TV event where the fans show up for more than the top 3-4 fights. Thats not good. The entertainment value of the sport is so lacking to non-hardcore fans I think you guys who work in the business are so blind & used to it you think its still ideal in 2023.

Boxing is the only sport I'm aware of where you're sold to fans as a high level athlete more than you have to prove how good an athlete you are to get fans.

[Gideon lock]

I use amazon prime on ps4 will I be able to watch fights with my normal monthly subscription or will it be extra for boxing does anyone know?

[daggum]

Obviously there's not tiers in boxing, although I think there should be & in a way there kinda sorta is unofficially. Like if you sign with a TV deal promoter you are kinda at the AA level out of the gate. And a guy who signs with a local non-TV deal promoter is kinda fighting at the A level & guys who don't even sign with anyone out of the gate are in the Rookie League. You might even say guys like Loma & Andy more recently started at the AAA level. But thats a whole other subject.

As to the "godzilla" pro debut opp I'm not suggesting anyone do that at all. I do think you let outcomes decide who rises to better & better guys more than guys are cleverly moved from their debut to belt fights, or as you'd say "developed" into their highest level in the sport. Its hurting the sport to put guys into fights no one gaf about til they are 15-20 fights & 3-4 yrs deep into their careers. You'll rarely see a TV event where the fans show up for more than the top 3-4 fights. Thats not good. The entertainment value of the sport is so lacking to non-hardcore fans I think you guys who work in the business are so blind & used to it you think its still ideal in 2023.

Boxing is the only sport I'm aware of where you're sold to fans as a high level athlete more than you have to prove how good an athlete you are to get fans.

well there is real boxing and then there is the tier tank is on where he only fights bums, teeny tiny men, drained opponents etc...and these tiers never ever cross over

[Eff Pandas]

I use amazon prime on ps4 will I be able to watch fights with my normal monthly subscription or will it be extra for boxing does anyone know?

I've heard they will be doing about 50/50 regular shows to PPV shows so the regular shows would be part of the monthly sub & the PPV's would be extra.

I do expect another Amazon deal to happen to put lesser shows on Amazon Freevee tho so there will be more fights that will be a regular part of your sub price I'd be willing to bet.

[OnePunch]

Obviously there's not tiers in boxing, although I think there should be & in a way there kinda sorta is unofficially. Like if you sign with a TV deal promoter you are kinda at the AA level out of the gate. And a guy who signs with a local non-TV deal promoter is kinda fighting at the A level & guys who don't even sign with anyone out of the gate are in the Rookie League. You might even say guys like Loma & Andy more recently started at the AAA level. But thats a whole other subject.

As to the "godzilla" pro debut opp I'm not suggesting anyone do that at all. I do think you let outcomes decide who rises to better & better guys more than guys are cleverly moved from their debut to belt fights, or as you'd say "developed" into their highest level in the sport. Its hurting the sport to put guys into fights no one gaf about til they are 15-20 fights & 3-4 yrs deep into their careers. You'll rarely see a TV event where the fans show up for more than the top 3-4 fights. Thats not good. The entertainment value of the sport is so lacking to non-hardcore fans I think you guys who work in the business are so blind & used to it you think its still ideal in 2023.

Boxing is the only sport I'm aware of where you're sold to fans as a high level athlete more than you have to prove how good an athlete you are to get fans.

You keep acting like this is something new. You ignore boxing's history. Look at the records of guys like Marciano, Chavez, Joe Louis, etc. Sure, as a fan I want to see Gatti-Ward in every fight. But thats just not reality. In Sugar Ray Robinsons record, only 2 of his first 10 opponents had winning records, and they still had 62 losses between them. He didnt fight Fritz Zivic or Lamotta in his first 15 fights. Thats what development is. Its about getting "real fight" experience, and that cant be taught in the gym or in the amateurs. One could make the argument that had Loma had a few more pro fights before Salido, maybe he doesnt take that loss. He didnt lose because Salido was better, he lost because he lacked the real-fight experience to deal with a cagey veterans tricks.


Now I agree that some of todays established guys take "development" WAY too far, and you end up having sitting champions who wont take a decent fight. But I think thats more of a result of them getting big money to fight tune-ups, so there really isnt much incentive for them to risk a loss. Yes, that mentality sucks, but it is what it is. Pretending it doesnt exist will not make it go away.

[Eff Pandas]

You keep acting like this is something new. You ignore boxing's history. Look at the records of guys like Marciano, Chavez, Joe Louis, etc. Sure, as a fan I want to see Gatti-Ward in every fight. But thats just not reality. In Sugar Ray Robinsons record, only 2 of his first 10 opponents had winning records, and they still had 62 losses between them. He didnt fight Fritz Zivic or Lamotta in his first 15 fights. Thats what development is. Its about getting "real fight" experience, and that cant be taught in the gym or in the amateurs. One could make the argument that had Loma had a few more pro fights before Salido, maybe he doesnt take that loss. He didnt lose because Salido was better, he lost because he lacked the real-fight experience to deal with a cagey veterans tricks.


Now I agree that some of todays established guys take "development" WAY too far, and you end up having sitting champions who wont take a decent fight. But I think thats more of a result of them getting big money to fight tune-ups, so there really isnt much incentive for them to risk a loss. Yes, that mentality sucks, but it is what it is. Pretending it doesnt exist will not make it go away.

I didn't say its new. I think it is perfected tho. There's never been a better time to be the sellable guy with good, but not great boxing talent. And obviously there are guys on a far lower level of popularity being sold as guys who are boxers more than they are being proven as a boxer . Thats the issue I have & I think its an issue many have & why fewer & fewer ppl engage with "real boxing" & trend towards the more fun & competitive "novelty boxing" or just the real boxing big shows. Novelty boxing is giving more ppl with interest in boxing what they crave from boxing than what the real boxing ppl are giving them.

I'd suggest its taken too far more often than its not these days. My evidence would be the amount of 10-0 to 30-0 guys who fight their first live opp & lose & are never the same boxer again & far more often then most would predict go on wild losing runs the rest of their career as they fight more live opps. Those types are a dime a dozen.

The business of the sport of boxing has leaned into the business angle & leaned too far away from the sport & the entertainment angle. Fans don't care about the sellable kid the big name TV deal promoter gave a $100k signing bonus to when they haven't even seen him in a real fight yet & won't for years. The promoter gives a fook & needs to get him to 20-0 & a belt fight to ensure the juice was worth the squeeze for him, the promoter. To some extent I'd imagine the promoter doesn't even gaf if the sellable kid is good, only that he makes money off of that arrangement with clever matchmaking if needed.

[Cypocryphy]

I think you would be wrong. Skilled matchmakers like Bruce Trampler and Brad Goodman have pretty much perfected the method of developing and moving fighters at the proper speed. Each fighter is different, but a skilled matchmaker finds that sweet spot. If you move them too fast, they dont retain anything. If you move them too slow, they get complacent and hold on to too many bad habits. Each fighter has a development "zone", and Trampler and Goodman are the best in the business at finding it.

I think we were talking about this not too long ago. I understand that there's a skill and talent in matchmaking, but truth be told, I haven't been impressed with Bruce and Brad lately. Take Keyshawn Davis, for example. He's been matched against some very subpar competition, such as MMA guys and part-timers. I think just recently they matched him up against Yiggit. An Olympic silver medalist facing Yiggit. In my opinion, this is an example of poor matchmaking and is harmful to viewership. It's dreadful watching these guys paired up against no hopers. Maybe Bruce and Brad are under the illusion that audiences are somehow hoodwinked by the constant ****** of tomato cans being put in the ring with these guys, thinking that there's a real threat in there with them. This is why I said that I think half the people on Boxingscene could do a better job. I'm sure that sounds insulting, but I think it's insulting to the viewers who tune in to watch a predetermined outcome (a non-competitive predetermined outcome).

And speaking of predetermined outcomes, it's also obvious that in those rare instances where the guy hired "to lose" to "the investment" somehow shows up and shows out that the promotional companies/networks have the judges in place to ensure "the investment" comes out with the W. People talk about robberies only in regard to the marque fighters but we all know that the majority of robberies occur on these undercards, when "the investment" messes up. And that's one of the other issues too. If you happen to be one of those fighters that goes in the ring and doesn't take a knee for one of these young "investments," then you are subsequently blacklisted. There will be no more fights for you! It's either follow the script and bow out at the appropriate time or bow out of the sport completely because there will be no more phone calls being made for your services. I've seen that happen to several boxers. They beat the guy they were supposed to lose to, and then afterward, they can't get a fight for the life of them. Blacklisted.

We can talk about the crappy business model of the PBC (and incidentally, I agree with everything you said previously) and that parasite that goes by the name of Al Haymon, but what really has harmed the sport of boxing is the matchmaking or, as I should say, the "match fixing." I suppose that's why we see a constant ****** of tomato cans these days. Easier to set these guys up with a guaranteed win then to risk it with what would have to be another blatant robbery.

If you ask anyone who used to watch boxing but no longer do why they stopped, you will get the same answer over and over again: "It's too corrupt. Tired of seeing robberies."

[Eff Pandas]

I think we were talking about this not too long ago. I understand that there's a skill and talent in matchmaking, but truth be told, I haven't been impressed with Bruce and Brad lately. Take Keyshawn Davis, for example. He's been matched against some very subpar competition, such as MMA guys and part-timers. I think just recently they matched him up against Yiggit. An Olympic silver medalist facing Yiggit. In my opinion, this is an example of poor matchmaking and is harmful to viewership. It's dreadful watching these guys paired up against no hopers. Maybe Bruce and Brad are under the illusion that audiences are somehow hoodwinked by the constant ****** of tomato cans being put in the ring with these guys, thinking that there's a real threat in there with them. This is why I said that I think half the people on Boxingscene could do a better job. I'm sure that sounds insulting, but I think it's insulting to the viewers who tune in to watch a predetermined outcome (a non-competitive predetermined outcome).

And speaking of predetermined outcomes, it's also obvious that in those rare instances where the guy hired "to lose" to "the investment" somehow shows up and shows out that the promotional companies/networks have the judges in place to ensure "the investment" comes out with the W. People talk about robberies only in regard to the marque fighters but we all know that the majority of robberies occur on these undercards, when "the investment" messes up. And that's one of the other issues too. If you happen to be one of those fighters that goes in the ring and doesn't take a knee for one of these young "investments," then you are subsequently blacklisted. There will be no more fights for you! It's either follow the script and bow out at the appropriate time or bow out of the sport completely because there will be no more phone calls being made for your services. I've seen that happen to several boxers. They beat the guy they were supposed to lose to, and then afterward, they can't get a fight for the life of them. Blacklisted.

Great points here. The whole system is setup so these guys over here who look like &/or fight like guys who will be able to sell out venues or sell PPV's one day win & these guys over here who maybe more talented or not as talented lose. Its predetermined before, with a -8000 or w/e wide favorite, during, with sketchy cards, or after, with not being rewarded for beating the guy you were brought in to lose to. This is more a business setup than a sport setup. No other sport works like this even other combat sports don't operate quite like this.

[Gideon lock]

I've heard they will be doing about 50/50 regular shows to PPV shows so the regular shows would be part of the monthly sub & the PPV's would be extra.

I do expect another Amazon deal to happen to put lesser shows on Amazon Freevee tho so there will be more fights that will be a regular part of your sub price I'd be willing to bet.

Thanks for the information I look forward to seeing it on there do you have amazon too?