Where have all the Bawlls Gone?

[Willow The Wisp]

Where have all the Bawlls Gone in 50 years!?

The Class of 73'
1. Muhammad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Joe Frazier
4. Ken Norton
5. Jerry Quarry
6. Ron Lyle
7. Earnie Shavers


The Fights:

06-23-69. Frazier - Quarry I
10-26-70. Ali - Quarry I
03-08-71. Frazier - Ali I
06-27-72. Ali - Quarry II
01-22-73. Foreman - Frazier I
02-09-73. Quarry - Lyle
03-31-73. Norton - Ali I
09-10-73. Ali - Norton. II
12-14-73 Quarry - Shavers
01-28-74. Ali - Frazier II
03-26-74. Foreman - Norton
06-17-74. Frazier - Quarry II
10-30-74. Ali - Foreman
03-24-75. Norton - Quarry
05-16-75. Ali - Lyle
09-13-75. Lyle - Shavers
10-01-75. Ali - Frazier. III
01-24-76. Foreman- Lyle
06-15-76 Foreman - Frazier II
09-28-76 Ali - Norton. III
09-29-77. Ali - Shavers

21 fights from this group within 8 years


The Class of 23'
1. Tyson Fury
2. Deontay Wilder
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Wladimir Klitschko
5. Oleksandr Usyk
6. Andy Ruiz Jr.
7. Luis Ortiz



The Fights:

11-28-15. Fury - Klitschko
04-29-17. Joshua- Klitschko
03-03-18 Wilder - Ortiz I
12-01-18 Wilder - Fury I
06-01-19. Ruiz- Joshua I
11-23-19. Wilder - Ortiz II
12-07-19. Joshua- Ruiz II
02-22-20 Fury - Wilder II
09-25-21. Usyk- Joshua I
10-09-21. Fury - Wilder III
08-20-22. Usyk - Joshua II
09-04-22 Ruiz - Ortiz

12 fights from this group within 8 years


What has happened to the best meeting the Best????

[crimsonfalcon07]

Well, let's break it down by activity.

AJ - 5 fights from your list, plus another with Joseph Parker, and a total of 19 between 15-22. 7 vs world champs, 4 wins 3 losses.
Usyk - 2 fights from your list, 5 since his debut in 2019. 15 between 15-22, with 3 against top cruiserweights in 2018 alone. 7 fights vs world champions in that time frame, all 7 wins.
Wilder - 5 from your list, 14 between 15-22 5 fights vs world champions, 2 win 2 losses, 1 draw.
Ruiz - 3 from your list between 19-22, 4 in that time frame, 8 since losing an MD to Parker, 13 between 15-22 3 fights vs world champions, 1 win 2 losses.
Ortiz - 3 fights from list, 15 total between 15-22 4 fights vs world champions, 1 win 3 losses.
Fury - 4 from your list, 10 between 15-22. 4 fights vs world champions, 3 wins 1 draw.

Klitschko on the tail end of his career so not sure why he's really included in this class.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

The common denominator with the modern day HW’s and most modern fighters tbh is they all talk a hell of a lot more than they fight. They take the worst traits from the greats.

Ali ran his mouth but he also fought regularly and backed it up.

Ali fought exhibitions but he also defended his title regularly, I think the famous exhibition with Inoki occurred in 76, he defended the HW title 4 times that year including the trilogy with Norton.

[Willow The Wisp]

Good thoughts.
Klitschko is the central character from the previous era - his. His inclusion should not reflect poorly on him, obviously. In listing (what I feel is) a top 7, I might have instead used Parker, Joyce, Povetkin, Whyte, Zhang or any number, but even in the era distinctly outside of his own, Klitschko ties to two of the 6 other best, even in losing, albeit honorable efforts. The comparative activity level, the willingness to take a loss - Astounding shift.

[crimsonfalcon07]

...
Klitschko ties to two of the 6 other best, even in losing, albeit honorable efforts. The comparative activity level, the willingness to take a loss - Astounding shift.

It really is. My opinion looking at the top guys is that a lot of it boils down to Fury. Basically all the champions lost months of time in negotiations with him while he played ****** games. Says a lot that he's got the least activity of any of them, from fights with champions to fights at all. He's been involved in literally years of wasted time in negotiations for fights that didn't happen. He's had to be forced into almost every one of his few title defenses as well. Zero defenses for his unified championship reign, Wilder had to go to court to get his contractual rematch, and Whyte had to go through how many purse bids? YMMV, but IMO the evidence is pretty clear. As soon as Fury entered the title picture, we saw a drastic drop in activity. AJ, Wilder, and Usyk all had some of their least active years coincide with negotiations with Fury, failed or otherwise.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Another thought. I'd be curious how much you think the shift to modern training methods and expectations regarding quantity of fights has affected activity overall. The old greats used to have 40+ fights in a career easily. That's quite rare these days unless there's a lot of cans on the record.